A Winter Water Challenge
Dec 6, 2020 at 8:04 pm #3687579Ryan JordanAdmin
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
Did some testing with ice picks and center punches over the past week.
I learned a lot:
1. Using an ice pick without a hammer requires that the pick be quite sharp and aggressively tapered. It works best on brittle ice (very cold temps), and is impractical for elastic ice (warm temps). The titanium ice pick noted earlier is a fantastic tool – it weighs only 1.6 oz, and works like a champ when compared to a steel wal-mart version. Very impressive. A small hammer or rock amps this up, of course. Again, practical only for brittle ice.
2. Same comments with a professional carbide-tip center punch, but it absolutely requires a hammer. Not as effective as an ice pick. Also a bit heavier.
3. We really met our match on today’s hike. Warm temps, so picks were out. Ice was 8-9″ thick, and we couldn’t reach water with the screws. Those are probably hatchet conditions.Dec 6, 2020 at 8:17 pm #3687587
Det cord.Dec 8, 2020 at 11:36 am #3687803
Some of my wake-up-in-the-middle-of-the-night ideas are, umm, better than others. Not sure about this one. Rough image for concept only, not to scale.
Many variations possible. Potentially a good use for the tall “lightweight” propane cylinders discussed in many, many threads elsewhere, since propane would work reliably at lower temperatures. Also, should be able to use an invertable remote canister stove burning isobutane in reasonably frigid conditions. Or a Moulder strip.
Spent too much time looking for torches fueled by backpacking butane canisters. They’re out there, but extra weight if you are carrying a suitable stove anyway.
I used an image of a 7-inch gutter nail; many other long skinny pointed metal things, some even used routinely by backpackers, might work. Pick one large enough in diameter to put your extraction hose down. Could even sharpen a chunk of custom-length and -diameter rebar.
— RexDec 8, 2020 at 11:50 am #3687805
Rex, try doing it this winter and let us know how it worked.Dec 8, 2020 at 11:51 am #3687806
Full on winter where I live and play rarely gets below freezing. I’ll leave testing to winter experts.
— RexDec 8, 2020 at 11:52 am #3687807
Ryan will give it a try for sure.Dec 8, 2020 at 12:06 pm #3687809Jon Fong / Flat Cat GearBPL Member
@jonfongLocale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Maybe you should try using a road flare. Light it, invert it and let it doe the work.Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 pm #3687819
Replace steel nail with 1/8″ copper wire.Dec 8, 2020 at 2:50 pm #3687837
I watched the video again, what a PITA it was for Ryan to find water. Watch again.Dec 8, 2020 at 3:34 pm #3687844
Ah, come on: it is all part of the fun!Dec 8, 2020 at 3:41 pm #3687847
We can tell he was having fun. Wait till we see a video of him flipping over fences :-)Dec 8, 2020 at 3:42 pm #3687848
Fosbury Flop?Dec 8, 2020 at 4:53 pm #3687861
Solid copper bare grounding wire is available in a variety of AWG gauges (diameters) and lengths from USA big box hardware stores and online. Pick a gauge at least slightly bigger than your extraction hose, and long enough to penetrate expected ice thickness plus several inches for safe torching. Examples:
6-gauge wire, 0.1620 inch diameter.
4-gauge wire, 0.2043 inch diameter.
Much better heat conductor than steel or titanium. Probably too soft for multi-use as a traditional tent stake, maybe good as a deadman, or other tasks.
Might be able to pick up leftover chunks from electricians at construction sites.
— RexDec 8, 2020 at 4:54 pm #3687862
Yeah, his pack will protect him while going over.Dec 8, 2020 at 6:29 pm #3687875obx hikerBPL Member
The old kerosene heater fuel siphon. Ahhh the memories. Priming that thing sometimes involved a little assistance. Kerosene does NOT taste good!
Looks like the steel screw is worth the extra weight.
Ryan this was useful and informative. Thanks!
Looking forward to video of the fence crossings!Dec 8, 2020 at 6:55 pm #3687880
You know, a Forstner bit with an aluminium (or even plastic?) extension handle might be another idea. I think someone else already suggested this.
Ha: a Titanium extension handle!
It’s only $4.89
CheersDec 8, 2020 at 7:01 pm #3687882David GardnerBPL Member
@gearmakerLocale: Northern California
Why would you want a Forstner bit? They’re used for drilling flat bottom holes in wood. In this situation you want to just pierce through hard ice. A masonry bit with carbide tip would work better IMHO.Dec 8, 2020 at 7:12 pm #3687885
A Forstner bit is sharp and will cut the ice, even hand-driven. It would make a nice hole in ice.
A carbide-tipped masonry drill bit is usually blunt (by design), and it would be hard work without a hammer drill. I have sharpened one (diamond tool&cutter grinder) for drill metal, but why bother?
CheersDec 8, 2020 at 7:12 pm #3687886
Why would you want a Forstner bit?
tell him roger why it’s better.Dec 10, 2020 at 4:03 pm #3688187Sarah KirkconnellBPL Member
@sarbarLocale: Homesteading On An Island In The PNW
Metal stake for tent, and no, not a UL one……worth the weight in winter.Dec 10, 2020 at 4:50 pm #3688193
I have also used a ‘flat wood bit’ for drilling holes in timber. Bolt holes through tough Oz hardwood. They are also available on ebay, even cheaper (steel not carbide), plus they have long shanks.
CheersDec 10, 2020 at 4:58 pm #3688196Jon Fong / Flat Cat GearBPL Member
@jonfongLocale: FLAT CAT GEAR
BTW, people do make drill bits specifically for ice. My 2 centsDec 10, 2020 at 5:07 pm #3688200jscottBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
Doctor: How’d you end up with the bullet wound Mr, Jordan”
–I needed water so I fired a couple of rounds at the ice in a river and a bullet ricocheted the wrong way.
Doc: and the shrapnel?
–well, when the gun failed I set off an explosive and forgot that it would expand up and out.
Doc. I see. And the radiation burn?
–some guys on the forum thought that might melt the ice. No go.
Doc: the puncture wound?
–I was standing on the ice and slipped and, well, hit the vampire ice pick just as my knee was sliding under…
And what’s with all these cuts around your groin and hands and arm?
–well, there were a lot of barbed wire crossings I had to make on my backpacking trip.
doc: I see. did it ever occur to you hike somewhere that didn’t require all these extreme remedies jsut to move around…? By the way, you’re severely dehydrated.
–I never did get to any water under the ice…Gee, it was a fun trip though! Next time I’m taking my wife.Dec 10, 2020 at 5:09 pm #3688201BlackHatGuySpectator
@sleepingLocale: The Cascades
Ha!Dec 10, 2020 at 5:10 pm #3688204
Yes, that ‘ice drill’ works fine, but they were not made in the first place for ice. They are made for wood, and I have 4 or 5 of them. They work well. (Some of them are 50+ years old.)
Provided you keep the edge and the tooth sharp, they cut very well. The interesting thing about the design is that, with a modicum of care, you can resharpen then for several inches down their length! That is how they were made in the first place.
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