A few questions to those who carry a gun while hiking/backpacking

Doug, I almost spit out my coffee!

It’s good to get different viewpoints about gun carry in the wilderness. But what has intrigued me personally is that I may just go to a shooting range to become comfortable with a powerful weapon. If I did carry, then there is the question of it being concealed or not when hiking. Pros and cons to that, too. Perhaps the main question to any gun owner is why carry, and that, of course, is a personal answer.

Doug has a point.   It seems that Americans are inconsistent in the enthusiasm for the principles laid out in the nation’s founding documents.    The thread shows that there is great enthusiasm to embrace the rights laid out in the Second Amendment.    But why do so many people feel the urge to keep getting married if they also have the right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”?

I seem to recall a post a few years back of a woman and her daughter on a local trail, not the back country.  A creepy drunk guy kept following them about 30 feet behind, not close enough to panic, but he also would not go away.  They were pretty freaked out and, upon rounding a bend, the two of them sprinted off the trail and lost him.  I believe she stated she wished she’d had her firearm for peace of mind, although bear spray and running away probably would have been more appropriate if he got up close and personal.

As noted above, from 2013 “The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.””  95% of these uses came without firing a shot.  I think being prepared is different than “living in fear.”  Bad things happen to good people randomly, and when the consequences could be catastrophic, the extremely low odds don’t matter as much.

Carrying a small and light .380 on the trail is a personal choice.

“I think being prepared is different than “living in fear.””

+1. Carrying a CW as a matter of habit is no more living in fear for many people than is wearing a seatbelt or locking your doors at night.

I have a rueger 38 subnose revolver carried in a holster. That said, I’ve only taken it with me one time.  Its very rare that I’ve ever felt threatened enough to have a gun along.  There are wild hogs in the Georgia woods which can easily kill you.  They’re extremely mean is you surprize them.  That said a 38 isn’t really a big enough caliber to kill one except for from close range.  Here’s what I learned from the experience of carrying it one time.

1. Guns are pretty heavy.  Even the rueger 38 snub nose weighs 13 ounces.  My gung ho buddies with bigger guns called it a girl gun.  It will easily handle a wild dog, human threat, coyote, etc but its not enough for a bear of any size or even a hog for that matter – I was counting on the noise being a deterrent.
2. Ammo is also heavy. The bullets are generally lead and the casings are brass.  My rueger held 5 bullets which probably added another 8 ounces of weight.
3. Revolvers are safer than semi-automatics for non-gun people.  Semi automatics will hold a bullet in the chamber even after you’ve removed the clip.  Its easy the forget that the chambered bullet is in there. Thus, leading to the safe feeling that the gun isn’t loaded when it actually is.
4. My revolver doesn’t have a safety.  I think this is fairly common if not rue of all revolvers.  I left one bullet out and kept the empty chamber in a position so that it wouldn’t fire.
5. Its difficult to keep a gun dry when you’re out backpacking.  Wet guns corrode and guns with corrosion misfire and misbehave.  This problem is somewhat avoidable but its an issue that requires constant attention.
6. If you are going to carry a gun you need to be able to use it right away since most dangerous situations can be avoided.  If you can’t avoid a dangerous situation you need access to your gun right away.  So, stored in the bottom of your pack is a poor solution.  You can get a holster that will go on your backpack hip belt or on your chest (maybe on the shoulder strap.  Finding a holster that will work with your pack is more challenging than it sounds.  Some guns will fit in some hip belt pockets.  Some guns will fit in your trouser pockets.  The gun needs to be protected by something to avoid accidentally engaging the trigger.  None the less no matter what solution you choose it adds more weight another 6 to 8 ounces maybe.  So, carrying a gun will add up to probably at least 2 lbs to your carry weight even if you pick a lightweight.
7. If you carry a gun you need to have a loaded gun.  Carrying an unloaded weapon means it won’t be there when you need it.
8. Sleeping in my tiny backpacking tent with a loaded gun next to me made me uncomfortable even though it was in my boot so I couldn’t accidentally roll over onto it at night.
9. Laws vary in every state.  You can be following the laws in your state and be breaking the law in another.  Georgia has lax gun laws so my carry permit is recognized  in no other state (I think).
10. Last but not least! If you are carrying a gun so that its accessible and easy to get to in a dangerous situation means everyone on the trail can see it too.  The one time I took mine with me I had to endure more negative comments over the course of my trip than I’d like to hear.  In addition, one guy completely freaked out. He was pointing at me, saying he’s got a gun everyone, he’s got a gun! He was snapping photo’s posting them on Facebook, etc.  …. a totally unnecessary and uncomfortable situation.

So that is quite a lot to consider.  I’ve decided that for me a gun on the trail is just not worth the trouble.

I don’t normally do gun threads as the topic is quite volatile, though I will say it’s probably the number one question I get asked when people find out I backpack, followed by questions asking me what I eat.

I do not and have never carried while backpacking. I assume that you are worried about other people other than animals, but for animals I will say this.

I was false charged by a Black Bear in GSMNP about a mile north of Derrick Knob in ~2010 and I will say that it all happened so fast that it wouldn’t have mattered if I had a gun on my hip or bear spray available, I wouldn’t have been able to unholster and/or aim before the bear would have been on top of me.

I have run across a few people on the trail that I have felt uncomfortable around, and I have just kept going. One time on the AT, I was going to stay in a shelter (which is unusual for me) and there was an individual inside that I felt funny about, so I decided to keep going and did 3-4 more miles that night before camping. Ironically, the fact that he had a gun and a large knife only added to my discomfort.

I stand by the fact that the most dangerous part of backpacking is driving to the trailhead.

I agree with Brad.  I, too, have been false charged by a bear.  My experience was in the Cohutta Wilderness and it happened in a split second.  We were in our campsite and IF I had brought a gun with me it would have been in its holster on my backpack hip belt which would have been of no use.  I made myself look big and yelled curse words loudly at the bear.  He was unaccustomed to hearing non-pc words, got afraid, turned and ran away.  Really.  I might have a different view of mountain lions as a threat but we don’t have those here out east although the word is that they are making a come back.

I live in Alaska and carry a Glock 10 mm compact. Light it is not. I carry it in a chest pack from Hill People Gear. I have 2 different sizes depending on the trip and what I need to carry. I have a Velcro loop that the gun goes into.

https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1/ProductID/71

Easy to draw from when hiking. I keep the handgun aspect partially opened when hiking to enable for quicker drawing. At night, I keep it still in the chest pack and unzippered fully and next to my sleeping pad. No, it won’t go off it’s own. I have been using this chest pack for 8 years and am happy with it. Sometimes for day hikes or skis I will have it on my waist band concealed. In those cases, depending on the hike or ski, I may have my 9mm. Unleashed dogs, which Anchorage has a lot of, and being out with my small kids has come to near confrontation at times because of aggressive dogs. So I carry for a lot of animals: Bears, mamma moose, and dogs.  If I lived in the lower northwest I’d carry for mountain lions as we just saw.

Carrying is a very personal decision.

I’d suggest taking a basic course. Trying various    Brands, types.  If you do decide to purchase, then I’d suggest a CCW course (concealed carry).  That would train and prepare you and answer all the questions you have.

For women, I’d suggest a female instructor (my wife is an instructor, so just her AND my opinion). Happy to chat offline if you’d like.

All the best,

TEJ

If you want to be prepared when you leave home, you’d be better off carrying a defibrillator. And a large first aid kit. And splints. And a large knife for cutting off your arm in case you get trapped in a car wreck and need to exit. And syringes full of bee sting and snake bite antidote, and insulin in case you run into a diabetic having an episode. And a fire extinguisher. And a chainsaw in case a tree falls on someone and they need to be freed. And of course you have an ambulance company and the local emergency room on speed dial. And the sheriff’s department. All of these items, and many more, are far more likely to serve you in an emergency than a gun. But somehow no one carries these things every moment like they feel they need  to with guns.

I think people pack their fears, so to speak, and carry them as well, in all senses.

Doug,

Hee, hee, I hear you on that becoming “not fearful” line of reasoning when it comes to “mate selection”.

As I approach my 50th wedding anniversary in June I’m reminded of the old joke, “Marriage is not just a word, it’s sentence.” However my bride is amazingly still beautiful (Filipinas keep their looks well) and still loving so I’m lucky on that count.

Plus two beautiful, accomplished daughters and 5 cute grandkids makes it even better.

I’ve backpacked in AK and it takes some firepower for the animal threats there.  East coast USA is less threatening.  West coast USA is less threatening than AK but more so than east coast.  However, when you’re threatened it doesn’t matter where you are.

I think that it is a mistake to have a gun discussion on this forum because I am certain that a large number of people on this forum do not want guns to be a part of their lives anywhere, not in the city nor in the wilderness, and that they find the topic disagreeable or even upsetting. To introduce the topic in this particular forum invites acrimony, and drives a wedge between forum participants who otherwise can enjoy sharing information and perspectives. If the OP has a question about gun hardware or gun practices, I think that a gun-related forum is a more appropriate place. If the question is about stopping animals, there are other hunting related forums. More kids just got shot up a few days ago, and people are feeling pretty raw about it. At least no one has started making personal attacks, and the discussion has remained civil. But in my opinion, I don’t enjoy a running thread that normalizes what I think is a giant problem for our country. This just isn’t the place to argue studies and opinions about whether guns make us safer or not, and what caliber we should consider when the need arises to kill someone on a backpacking trip.

I would like to respectfully request that gun discussions that don’t involve hunting or safety from animals not be entertained at Backpackinglight.

Deleted.  Duplicate comment., i did not read Jeffrey’s first.

Can’t agree with that.  The issue of taking a gun into the wilderness when backpacking is a backpacking issue, not a gun or hunting issue.

Donna,

I don’t wear a hip belt on my pack so I would just carry a sidearm on my belt.   If that wasn’t an option for me, I’d go with one of the aforementioned chest rigs.

If you’re just starting out, I’d stay away from the smaller handguns like the Ruger LCP and Glock 43 as they are harder to learn on and harder to control.  The people who started with one of the smaller compacts seemed to take longer to internalize the fundamentals.

I recommend the Glock 19 for most beginners which is a mid sized 9mm.  The 380 round is a short 9mm.   I don’t like the ballistics of it and steer most people to a jacketed hollowpoint 9mm.  For me it’s not the best at anything but is really good at everything.   Same for the G19.

Hit me up if you ever find yourself in Eastern WA.   I’m a Firearms Instructor and would be happy to spend some time with you on the range.

As a retired 33 year Police Sergeant I can tell you that mace, pepper spray is iffy at best. We’ve tried all of the major brands with pretty much the same results. A determined attacker will be able to continue the fight until the fight is taken out of him. I’m not a fan of spray. Generally, if you deploy it, you’ll end up with some collateral spray damage.

Edit… oops Fred was typing his response at the same time.

To add…

I’ve been sprayed twice with OC spray at work and have had to spray other people.   A couple observations…

It affects people differently but it rarely works immediately.  The first time I used it defensively, the person did not react to it at all.

Bear spray should work but a word of caution.  Most (all?) canisters have a “do not use on humans” warning.

With any OC spray, there is the risk of damaging the eyes of the other person with what’s called the hydraulic needle effect.  We mitigate the risk by adding a few feet of distance and not blasting anyone point blank in the eyes.

With bear spray, since it’s deployed (presumably) with greater velocity, it stands to reason that there is a greater risk.   I’d personally save that for a life and death scenario vs normal OC I’d feel confortable using it to defend against simple assault.

“I think that it is a mistake to have a gun discussion on this forum because I am certain that a large number of people on this forum do not want guns to be a part of their lives anywhere, not in the city nor in the wilderness, and that they find the topic disagreeable or even upsetting.”

I think you’re a reasonable person, and I respect your opinion. But I don’t agree with the sentiment of your post. There are all kinds of discussions on BPL, and if a person is offended by a certain subject, then that person should simply avoid the thread instead of expecting everyone else to avoid posting the thread in the first place. Donna asked a legitimate question in a backpacking forum, since it had to do with backpacking.

A question was posed as to stories about firearms saving someone on the trail.   I don’t have one.

A man died and another was injured by a mountain lion in North Bend this weekend.   A similar story happened to a trail runner (Colorado?) who was also killed.   I think there’s something about running/biking that triggers their prey drive.   That might be a good scenario to carry one.  Hiking with small children might be another.

The probability of needing a firearm is low but there isn’t a good substitute for one for those few times when they are absolutely needed.

This. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23769881/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/killer-says-female-hiker-fought-him-end/#.WwIfnkgvw2w

There are evil people in the world.  This guy killed at least 3 other people in wilderness areas in the southeast.  He beat this young lady to death with a tire iron.  No guns were involved.  I am not an advocate of carrying a gun on backpacking trips (or day hikes) but the story here would have ended differently if she had been armed.  I don’t like guns myself but used responsibly they serve a purpose – defense if necessary.  The section of the trail this happened on is a section I am familiar with.  Its not that remote.  In fact I believe I came across this same guy out hiking one day years before this happened.  He creeped me out and I got away from him as fast as possible.  The linked story says he chose his victims based on whether or not he felt he could overpower them. …several women on different occasions and an elderly couple.

for those of you with a cat, if you try to pull away a toy, the cat will chase after it

if there’s a Cougar, don’t run away from it.

Donna asked a legitimate question in a backpacking forum, since it had to do with backpacking.

It’s not just any backpacking forum, though, now is it? It’s BackpackingLight. The ethos here is supposed to be “Pack less. Be more.”

The point has been well made by others that guns and ammo are extremely heavy. That makes them pretty irrelevant in the context of this online community. People have been known to backpack with two burner Coleman stoves wedged into their Keltys—I’ve seen them. So you can call it a stove choice that “has to do with backpacking.” But that doesn’t mean it’s a suitable topic here.

^^^^ and you think you get to make that call because…?

Others here are interested and getting answers .

I think Kurt makes valid points about firearms being very heavy for their very low probably of benificial, much less necessary use.  We often try to talk people out of low-yield gear

And yet we talk about photo equipment (can’t eat it, don’t wear it, and it makes a lousy pillow). And I’ve brought a hot tub on a backpacking trip.

Firearms are, for me, an antithesis of UL backpacking – why save ounces in order to carry a mostly useless / potentially dangerous 3-4-7 pound gun?

But we have lots of hunters on here and I spend 1-2 weeks each year on hunting trips benefiting from UL gear and techniques. Meat is still denser than water and your trip out is (hopefully) a heavy one, but all the trips in and stalking around can be done a lot lighter.

Some people won’t go without their gun just as some people won’t go without their large camera or camp chair or extensive fishing gear.  So it seems valid to discuss the lighter options for that gear.