Water Strategy

I've been using NUUN tablets with some success.

Dave,

I just ordered some of the NUUN tabs online from Costco.

""In the United States, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) limits the quinine content in tonic water to 83 mg per liter … Still, it is often recommended as a relief for leg cramps, but medical research suggests some care is needed in monitoring doses. Because of quinine's risks, the FDA cautions consumers against using "off-label" quinine drugs to treat leg cramps."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water"

I'll take the "Still, it is often recommended as a relief for leg cramps, but medical research suggests some care is needed in monitoring doses" as my baseline for using quinine for leg cramps, as I do with at least correlational success. I do not ascribe much credibility to an agency that has long since been bought and paid for by special interests, provenance unknown in this case, but nonetheless probably involved. TYOC, as always.

"I just ordered some of the NUUN tabs online from Costco."

You are ripping yourself off. If you analyze the ingredients in NUUN tablets, you will find that you can obtain the same electrolytes as contained in NUUN off the shelf of your local supermarket or drug store for pennies on the dollar. Basically, you're paying big bucks for the convenience of a pill. Sorry if I sound like Roger C., but every once in a while we agree on the marketing hype diatribe. ;0))

"you will find that you can obtain the same electrolytes as contained in NUUN off the shelf of your local supermarket or drug store for pennies on the dollar"

What's the best way to get calcium and magnesium? I'm aware of pills, but I want something I can use to make an electrolyte drink.

–MV

The point of my question was to stimulate direct comparison of the electrolytes in Gatorade, for instance, with what you can get from eating real food such as raisins.

If Gatorade is preventing cramps, it's not because of the potassium content. An ounce (by weight) of raisins has ~ 4 times as much potassium as 12 fluid oz of Gatorade Thirst Quencher. (They're ~ equal in calories.)

If the Gatorade works for you and raisins don't, it's almost certainly about the sodium. (Or a placebo effect.) Same story for Nuun tablets. An ounce of raisins has twice as much potassium as the Nuun tablet.

Real foods are also a very fine source of calcium and magnesium. The raisins have ~ as much calcium as the Nuun tablet, and while they're not a very good magnesium source, nuts are quite good for both. An ounce (by weight) of nuts has about 5 times the calcium of the Nuun tablet and about 3 times the magnesium.

Cheers,

Bill S.

"I do not ascribe much credibility to an agency that has long since been bought and paid for by special interests"

I think the USFDA is pretty good. They tried to change pizza and french fries from being considered vegetables in school lunches but the congress nixed this

"Food companies that produce frozen pizzas for schools, the salt industry and potato growers requested the changes, and some conservatives in Congress say the federal government shouldn't be telling children what to eat."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-yes/

USFDA changed nutrion recommendation to that half your food should be fruits and vegetables which is better than the old food pyramid that was more dictated by political contributors:

http://www.choosemyplate.gov/about.html

The nutrition information labels on food keeps getting more useful because of USFDA regulations

For a very cheap and easy electrolyte recipe see below. You can fill capsules or mix with drinks. I bought a capsule filling machine which fills 24 capsules at once. I go through many capsules so it made sense for me. Agree with Tom on commercial products being a complete waste of money. same goes with commercial products such as Perpeteum.

http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=b89d40f08de5192e3218a19cb6748b1a&entry_id=19697

"Sorry if I sound like Roger C., but every once in a while we agree on the marketing hype diatribe. ;0))"

LOL. Not at all. You didn't say Cheers.

I used the NUUN tablets on my last trip because I had trouble controlling cramps in my hamstrings. The convenience was easy – drop a tablet in a litre of water, shake, drink. And it worked really well. I will definitely be looking at alternative cheaper sources, but at 50 cents a tablet and one tablet a day over a 5 day trip, I didn't have to dip into my retirement savings to fund the trip. So marketing hype? No. It worked. It would be hype if it didn't work. Expensive? Considering it cost me well over $90 in fuel to get to the trailhead….

Dave, if you're willing to share the details of what you eat while backpacking and how many Nuun tablets per day you use, it'd be interesting to try to identify the dietary gaps that the tablets might plausibly be filling. I recognize that it takes time to put together all the details, so understand, of course, if you're not inclined to do it.

Bill S.

"So marketing hype? No. It worked. It would be hype if it didn't work."

I agree. If it works as advertised then it isn't hype.

Expensive – sure, aren't most things that you buy at the store instead of making yourself? You pay for convenience. Sometimes you pay extra for the name. Truly, I have no problem doing either.

Edit to add: No problem admitting as well that I also pay extra for my ignorance and laziness.

Bill, let me work on that. Don't want to hijack the thread.

The cramping was a new phenomenon just this past season and given my training went up significantly, my dietary requirements may have in fact changed more than I had initially assumed.

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Bill,

As I understand it you are suggesting that all one needs to stay hydrated with adequate electrolytes is eat properly constituted gorp and drink adequate water. Is that correct? Care to offer any guidelines on the makeup of the gorp and the amount one would need to eat? (Assume the person is sweating a lot and breathing hard, for whatever reason.)

As to the electrolyte drinks — one of the drawbacks to using two hiking poles is that it ties up the hands — making snacking on gorp as you hike less attractive. Also happens when XC skiing. One solution is to drink a suitable electrolyte mix from a hydration bladder (yes, I know … then you need to keep the bladder clean). With cost in mind, how to set up an effective, and cost effective, homemade mix is an intriguing question.

–MV

Group Health's 1995 edition of Healthwise gives this recipe for humans 12 and over:

1 quart water
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 te4aspoon table salt
3 to 4 teaspoons sugar
if available add 1/4 teaspoon salt substitute ("Lite Salt")

They say to be precise in measuring or the drink might be ineffective or harmful. They warn again not to give it to children under age 12.

"lite salt" is 50% sodium chloride, 50% potasium chloride

salt substitute is potasium chloride

which one, or is that important?

I usually throw in some lite salt in my oatmeal in the morning and my soup in the evening, but probably not enough to make that much difference. Maybe more if it's hot.

And I take calcium pills with some magnesium in them – 80 mg magnesium per day.

I've used Dieter's salt, which is 90% potassium chloride and 10% sodium chloride.

I guess it matters what you are trying to accomplish.

Table salt makes a better flavor inhancer. The 90% stuff is a better source of potassium, but if you've had your portion of Gatorade, then you may not need all of that.

–B.G.–

“lite salt” is 50% sodium chloride, 50% potasium chloride

salt substitute is potasium chloride

which one, or is that important?

I reread the Healthwise Handbook and they capitalized it as “Lite Salt” so I’m thinking they meant a specific brand. But the article is 20 years old so things may of changed.

Googling comes up with many formulas that may all lead to the same place. I don’t know enough to evaluate the differences.

I have some Oral Rehydration Salts in foil packets that look very official/professional/serious. Here’s a link to the makers of them showing what’s in them.

here

Neither of the items above taste very good to me. I like Gatorade G2 because it tastes good and has fewer calories and less sugar than regular Gatorade. Mixing Gatorade with wine (especially expensive wine) makes the wine taste much better (think Ripple brand). My wife says buying Gatorade in plastic bottles wastes money and plastic so I have to hide in the closet when I drink it.

Are you wandering around the air conditioned mall for a hour?

Or are you going through a liter an hour in 90°F heat for 12 hours?

What "electrolytes" are you getting from your food?

Questions and suggestion are meaningless without context.

"As I understand it you are suggesting that all one needs to stay hydrated with adequate electrolytes is eat properly constituted gorp and drink adequate water. Is that correct? Care to offer any guidelines on the makeup of the gorp and the amount one would need to eat? (Assume the person is sweating a lot and breathing hard, for whatever reason.)"

Gorp as an example, but normally as part of a diet of real food. I'll put some detail into a new thread in Food, Hydration and Nutrition forum.

Cheers,

Bill

"I have some Oral Rehydration Salts in foil packets that look very official/professional/serious. Here's a link to the makers of them showing what's in them."

I used the rehydration salts sold by Jianis Bros. for most of the 1990's. They work very well when diluted to half strength. I didn't mind the taste, but it definitely isn't for everyone. Tthat is easily remedied by flavoring it with Kool Aid, Crystal Lite, etc. The only downside is that you have to buy them in bulk. If you could make a group buy, it would be a great way to go.

"What's the best way to get calcium and magnesium? I'm aware of pills, but I want something I can use to make an electrolyte drink."

http://www.bulksupplements.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=magnesium+powder

Do a search for calcium powder once on their website to find a list of products.

I wonder if the bulksupplements are as good as pills you can get from local store

I'm never sure about supplements like that, whether they're what they say they are

"I wonder if the bulksupplements are as good as pills you can get from local store

I'm never sure about supplements like that, whether they're what they say they are"

What makes you sure the pills at your local store are what they say they are? ;0)

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