Water Strategy

If you mix some electrolyte powder into your water, you may find that you need to consume slightly less water.

Basically, if you consume a lot of plain water, then you may be urinating a lot, and that may be wasteful of the plain water. The electrolyte powder in the plain water allows the water to stay in your tissues longer where it is needed.

–B.G.–

That's a good point.. I was planning on doing that just because of how much I sweat, but it should help with overall water consumption. Thanks!

I almost never carry more than one pint of water.

If it's cool, I drink several pints before going. Carry one pint in pack. After a couple hours I'll drink about a quarter of it once and hour. Lasts all day.

In hot weather I'll plan to stop somewhere halfway. Drink all my water before then. Stop and filter a pint and drink it and filter another pint to carry.

Also, learn to read the map and/or guidebook to find out where you can get away with carrying little to no water at a time. Also, when you may have to stock up a bit and deal with it. If you are going along a river or crossing them regularly you can carry very little. also, experiment with how far you can go on one liter then use that mileage to judge what you will need.

i am small and don't sweat a ton so I get by with very little.. I also hate carrying water so I tend to push it when I feel ok to do so.

Fausto,

I'm also a heavy sweater (i.e. I sweat heavily, not that I'm a lambs wool sweater). Through trial and error, however, I've learned that I'm OK as long as I drink at least a gallon per day. A little dehydration doesn't seem to hurt me. So the amount I carry depends on how much I've had to drink so far that day and my knowledge (as others suggest) of water resources that are ahead.

Sometimes I'll carry a gallon at one time so I can go off trail and dry camp just to get away from people.

Usually, however, I carry no more than a quart at a time.

Guzzling water (and beer) is easy for me so I will also sometimes guzzle a quart when I stop for water…..especially in hot weather. So guzzle one, carry one, carry on.

Plan your hikes like you would your endurance events, figure out not only your drinking capacities pertaining to mileage and elevation gains and losses, but also plan to eat at water stops. I have been using Succeed electrolyte complimented with HEED products, sometimes I just can't eat enough in the heat and drinking heed plus water at sources keeps me going untiI I can stop again and devote more time to a meal, like a few miles before camping. Also eating at water sources away from where you will camp keeps mice and bears and skunks from discovering your sleeping spot due to food odors.

The best answer is probably, you will have to determine what works best for your physiology. Over time you will figure out what works for you.

stream locations on maps are unreliable – I can think of many that are actually dry

some streams go dry later in season, maybe not every year

a good guidebook can be helpful

or maybe you just have to carry a little extra water

I think your (mental) need for water consumption is related to your water drinking habits on a regular basis. I don't drink water all day long, I usually only drink water when I consume food. I only drink when I'm thirsty.On the trail I carry minimal amounts of water while hiking but make a point to hydrate myself at water sources.

My hiking friend drinks a lot of water on a daily basis and feels like he needs to be constantly drinking. I can recall a long uphill climb where I carried a liter and a half of water. Halfway up I was down to 3/4 liter of water, my friend had already consumed all of his 3 liters of water and we were only half way to the next water source. I ended up sharing with him.

I met this crazy russian guy in the emigrant wildereness who drank no water during the day. He only drank in the mornings and at night, and then hiked all day without drinking water.

My theory is that humans are capable of going long distances without water but our constant access to drinking water had made us uncomfortable with doing so.

I recommended intentionally hiking with low amounts of water and letting yourself get thirsty. Try only drinking from source to source. But be careful about it.

You live in new york, not a desert! Get yourself a small filter or steripen. If you are still carrying a bunch of water when you reach a water source, you are doing it wrong. A good topo map will help you with this… of course be a little safe and conservative about it.

You can avoid carrying extra water by: drinking a ton before you start out; get intel from oncoming hikers to confirm sources you are anticipating so you don't carry extra to hedge your bets; consider the Steripen Freedom (or a Sawyer Squeeze.). For me it is true that at 2.6 oz it saved me the additional weight of carrying EXTRA water, because I used it more often for smaller quantities than when I filled larger vessels using tablets. I also had to admit that drinking cold water from the source without the Aquamira taste was indeed a quality of life improvement.

Most people drink far more water than they need. The whole 'hydration' myth is just that: something concocted by the drinks companies to get you to buy their product. OK – they have to live, but not out of MY wallet.

You do NOT need to drink that much. OP's claim of a gallon a day – whew, I would drown! Hyponatremia par excellence (and potentially dangerous to you as well)! That 8 pints business is also a meme or myth – try Snopes.

Yes, I can understand that it is hard to stop following the herd and to experiment. I can also understand that many people are conditioned to believe that if their mouth is dry, from panting, they are getting dehydrated. Nope – they have just been panting. Enough clinical trials have been done, in the lab and in the field, to blow the myth – but it is very profitable for the water and drinks companies.

Sue and I take a single 1.25 L PET bottle (between us) on a day walk outside of summer – and we bring some back. Summer time in Australia – we would take 2 off 1.25 L between us, but we often bring some back.

Cheers

I agree Justin.. the fitness trend the last __ years has been hydrate hydrate like crazy.. camelpaks.. running water bottles.. 2 water stops on a 5k course etc. in HS at track we would do 4-7miles with no water stops and would be fine. (not that long ago '98) we'd drink enough at meets to keep us good but not a ton. now i see people doing 5k's with water bottles and gels.

of course for the OP this comes down to packing his fears and he'll need to work his way up/down to carrying less by pushing his comfort level mentally.

I remember when i did the Presi traverse.. started with 1L meant to fill up a 2nd liter at the first hut 4mi in, forgot. had to go to mt washington summit at mile 11. oops.. i survived.. drank most of a liter there. filled up another one and pushed on. Have done similar distances other times too.. I know I can make it.

i'm sure there is a diminishing returns point too.. 5L is 11lbs… that is a lot to be humping around. I think it is funny people spend $$$ to take off ounces then kill it all with a 2lb bottle of water.

There is an upper bound on how much water a person can use per hour. Drinking any more than that does not help hydrate you. I read somewhere that 24 oz is a good estimate, but that it varies for different people. You may be working hard enough to lose more water than that, but that is the fastest you can hydrate. You may also be working less hard, and not need that much — quite common.

Following that line of thought, the most there is any logical point to carrying is 24 oz for each hour until the next time you can refill your water. Perhaps add a small safety margin in case it takes longer to get to the water, or in case the water is dry. You will not need that much unless your hiking is at the level of a serious athletic endeavor.

–MV

Fausto,

Sorry for the long post below but once I started writing I couldn't stop. I don't run into heavy sweaters very often so I feel a certain kinship with you. Perhaps we were twins separated at birth? I think heavy sweaters are one of the least understood groups of humans on the planet and, in some yet to be discovered way, special.

David K posted this a while back in response to a similar discussion we were having:

"Daryl,

You should read the book "Waterlogged: The Serious Problem of Overhydration in Endurance Athletes. It will change your mind.

"http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1347414536&sr=1-1&keywords=waterlogged"

Lotta good info in the book. It was in my local library. It reassured me that I don't have to be overly concerned about dehydration and can rely on thirst and how I feel as good indicators of when to drink. It also convinced me that overdrinking could be lethal.

You might try weighing yourself before and after exercise to see, roughly, how much liquid you are sweating out. When exercising heavily (e.g. jogging, going up hill with a pack, wheel barrowing and shoveling gravel, etc.) I can lose up to about 40 ounces of body weight per hour. Assuming most of this is sweat it translates into about 2.5 pints per hour. As another person pointed out there's a limit to how much your body can take in (24 ounces?)so there is a deficit building during these periods. A friend of mine in high school told me he would lose 5 lbs during a basketball game.

I agree with the poster's comment about figuring out what works for you. There's a huge variation in people. Even with drinking a gallon a day I typically return from a backpacking trip a quart or so low of water based upon body weight.

Another piece of advice given me which I like…..when urinating "if its dark and stinky it's time to drinky". I would consider that to be a late warning but it's one more piece of into to pay attention to.

I also agree with the electrolyte, nutrition, etc. comments. Don't know enough about the subject to be specific but I do know from personal experience that water alone is not always sufficient. When I was rebuilding my house I was working very hard 8-10 hours a day (jack hammering and moving concrete, digging, etc.) and sweating profusely throughout. Toward the end of the day I looked like a deflated blow-up doll and felt like crap with headache, muscle aches, fatigue, muscle cramps, etc. Then I started drinking a few quarts of Gatorade(sp?) each day. It changed everything and I felt wonderful! So something in the Gatorade (sugar, electrolytes,?) was the missing link.

yeah, I look at urine color

if it's fairly yellow, I'll start drinking a little more, if it's clear I'll quit drinking

and if it's warm and I'm exercising, I'll probably be a pint or two low, so I know to drink that much extra at the end of the day. Sometimes it'll be the next morning before I'm back normalized.

after a backpack trip I'll usually weigh a little less because I don't over-eat like I do at home. And I eat less fruits and vegetables. But after a few meals I'll be back to normal. It's weight in my intestines I assume.

The original issue was that the OP wanted to carry less water weight. Does anyone have an argument against the assertion that there is no point in carrying any more than the most the body can absorb before you get to the next water supply, plus an appropriate margin for error?

–MV

yes, if you're carrying 24 ounces per water, that is a crazy amount of water (weight) to be carrying.

better to carry as much water as your body is eliminating through sweat and urinating, minus the excess water you started with by drinking a bunch, minus an amount of deficit your body can tolerate.

for me, for first 2 hours, I don't need anything, I'm peeing excess water

then maybe 4 ounces per hour

for moderate temperatures

Robert,

"no point in carrying any more than the most the body can absorb before you get to the next water supply"

I agree.

Sometimes the hard part, however, is determining how long it will be before I get to
"the next water supply". Streams dry up and/or may not be accessible. On one trip I carried very little water because the map showed a healthy stream next to the trail. Surprise, surprise. For 8+ miles in hot weather with a very heavy pack I could not access that stream due to terrain, even though I could hear it all the way.

Another possibility is that one doesn't make it to the next water supply due to fatigue or injury and must camp before getting there. I've had to camp a couple of times without any water at camp. Very unpleasant. So I tend to carry an extra quart of water even when I'm "absolutely sure" I won't need it.

Ran into a PCT thru hiker who had a trail name noting his need for very little water. I'm sure his strategy would be to carry less than I do.

Larry Penberthy (father of MSR) stressed the importance of carrying extra water for first aid (e.g. cleaning wound, flushing something from the eye, taking medications, etc.)

"yes, if you're carrying 24 ounces per water, that is a crazy amount of water (weight) to be carrying."

I presume you mean too little.

That's not what the suggestion is. The suggestion is to carry no more than 24 oz for each hour until the next water supply, plus a suitable margin for error — things like how sure are you about your time to get there, how sure are you that it will be wet, and what will you do if it is not wet.

For example, that might translate to carrying at most a quart if the next water supply is an hour away (24 oz + an 8 oz margin) or 1.5-2 quarts (depending on what margin you need) if the next water is 2 hours away. Carry less if you don't need so much — you're not pushing too hard and it's not too hot. Do you *really* think that is too little and "crazy"? If so, why? If you think more need be carried, why? What is the point of carrying more than a body can absorb?

BTW: do not get too wedded to precisely 24 oz — if you experience says your body can actually make use of some other number then go with that. (24 oz has been decent for me.)

Edit: I just saw Daryl's post — crossed in the mail. My comment is that you just build a constant allowance for those sorts of things into the margin you need to carry. Think of it as my suggestion for the amount you need to carry to drink, and Daryl's suggestion that you might want to carry at least a little extra for contingencies.

The basic point is that the amount of water your body disposes of (sweat, body wastes, breathing, etc) is irrelevant to the extent it exceeds what your body can absorb. You need to carry the smaller of the amount you body disposes of and the amount it can absorb, plus any margin for uncertainties and contingencies that you feel is appropriate. If there is a water deficit, and if it is getting to be too much, then that is a problem you need to solve — and carrying more water will not solve it.

–MV

DM,

I like the sound of the Succeed electrolyte.

But for weight and convenience I'd like a dry tablet. Looks like Succeed is a liquid capsule from the ads I googled. Is this correct?

Does anyone make their own electrolyte drink mix? For example, the following one does not include any magnesium or calcium, but is dry and otherwise pretty comparable to commercial drinks:

1/2 tsp, rounded Morton Lite salt (3/4 tsp, for the potassium)
1/2 tsp table salt (for chloride and the remaining sodium)
1 pkg unsweetened Kool-Aid (for flavor)
4 Tbsp sugar (gives just under a 6% solution)
Makes 2 quarts

You can replace the Kool-Aid and sugar with any flavoring of your choice, such as lemonade powder. One way or another do include about that amount of sugar, though — is is pretty close to the optimum amount to facilitate absorption of the water.

–MV

I'm also a very heavy perspirer. During long, hot days I'll drink a gallon or more and still be pissing mustard — if I can piss at all. I have the added bonus of getting blood pressure and heart valve dysfunction if I'm low on electrolytes and dehydrated.

During normal days I plan on 1/2 liter per hour consumption. That includes 1 liter of energy / electrolyte drink sipped over 4 hours and the rest plain water. I'll drink a minimum of 1/2 liter right after I get out of my tent in the morning, usually with a Nuun electrolyte tablet.

The amount I carry will of course depend on the frequency of sources, and we do a pretty decent job of planning our stops. I've gradually adopted the strategy of "drink more at the stops and carry less in between," which worked very well in the Sierras this Summer despite the abnormal dryness. But I cringe at the thought of showing up near empty to a planned stop only to find the source dry or fouled, with the next one another 10 miles away. There was a long stretch on Section J this year that had several sources, all probably fouled by grazing cattle.

And for something extreme like the first 22 miles on the PCT going out of Cajon Pass (>7,000' of climbing), which is basically waterless, it's hard to plan. Last year I started with 5 liters and would have run far short had there not been an unexpected 90-gallon cache around 15 miles in.

But I'm often hours between water sources. And typically I won't stop for water at all during the day. Maybe 4 or 8 hours.

That would be 96 or 192 ounces of water = 6 or 12 pounds

If you're an athlete and maybe dehydrated, then the 24 ounces of water per hour would be relevant

If you're a casual backpacker in moderate weather, then you don't want to take any more than required to prevent more than minor dehydration. 16 ounces, or maybe 32 ounces – 1 or 2 pounds.

If it's hot weather, then plane on stopping once during the day to replenish

My original comment was that there is no point in taking any more than about 24 oz per hour, because your body cannot absorb any more than that. That's an amount I am personally comfortable with at times — doing a sustained aerobic workout or hiking at that intensity.

That's not to say you should always take that much. Frank mentioned planning on 16 oz per hour, which is in line with my hot weather experience. I need less than that in cool weather.

Jerry plans on quite a bit less, which brings up an interesting related question: how *little* water can you safely take? By "safely" I mean you may feel thirsty, but will suffer no ill effects or reduced performance. I'm all in favor of saving the weight, even at the expense of feeling thirsty, but not if it impairs my performance or gives me a headache.

–MV