Sierra Designs Cogule, Chaps, and Solar Wind Hoodie

We hide under your beds, in your closets, in the dark corners….

BOO! Personally, i'm not anti corporation, so much as i'm anti lack of ethics and uncontrolled greed that leads to abuse of people or the environment without any concern whatsoever for the individuals or the collective. There are some rare corporations out there that do seem to care and have a sense of ethics as a corporate "entity" (for remember, these are legally entities), and of those corporations, like Patagonia, though not perfect by any means, i speak well of them.

It's kind of like, i'm anti murder, anti rape, etc and while most of these crimes are committed by men, doesn't mean i'm anti men. It's just a sad fact that the larger collective corporate mentality, or "spirit" if you will, has largely evolved into what we might call psychopathic (or sociopathic?) …. again not every corporation is like that, but enough of them are to warrant generalizations. It's a trend, an average to a degree.

A great documentary about this trend, and the sordid history behind the modern day corporation, both in the social and legal development, is "The Corporation". I do believe one of the CEO's who was interviewed in same, very plainly stated that one day he hoped everything was privatized. If that doesn't send disturbing chills throughout your being… well, you're likely a lost cause, a zombie of sorts that those kind of corporations love and wish there were more of.

Instead of groaning and moaning "brains..brains…" they would prefer, "buy buy, buy more… consume consume."

(true story and not really connected to the above, i once had a really intense dream of being with a small group of people who were not zombies, but we were surrounded by same, at first i tried to fight them as we were being constantly attacked, but that wasn't working too well. I went within, tuned into a greater power than myself, laid hands on the nearest zombie and let that connection flow, and the zombie turned into a normal person again. Elated, i ran around from zombie to zombie with no fear doing the same thing, and transforming them all into normal humans. Bloody odd dream. It may be that the Zombie apocalypse is already here and has been for awhile…)

Yeah, that's right, it's Justin, our favorite anti-(many but not all)-corporatist. If he likes a product made by a group of people who have incorporated, it must be a fantastic product. Our canary in the mine, so to speak. Now go save some zombies!

"Yeah, that's right, it's Justin, our favorite anti-(many but not all)-corporatist. If he likes a product made by a group of people who have incorporated, it must be a fantastic product. Our canary in the mine, so to speak. Now go save some zombies!"

No need to get personal. I was speaking VERY generally, and no i wasn't underhandedly referring to you as a zombie, but i have met some human zombies.

Oh, come on Justin. You're one of my all time favorite posters, I always read (and appreciate) your posts, and you've helped me out with solid advice, literally scores of times. Just because we're on opposite sides on the corporation issue doesn't mean I'm not a big fan of you personally. My post above was actually meant to be lighthearted and fun. I thought you were being lighthearted in return. I even edited out a couple lines I thought might be taken wrong.

Come on, give me a big hug…I won't give you corporate cooties.

The ponytail port on the women's hoody is an awesome idea, but I think it should be placed a little lower. If your hair is longer than shoulder length, a braid is much more practical in the outdoors. Ponytails don't resist tangling and they still let your hair end up in your face if it's windy. But the base of the braid is closer to the nape of the neck than what's shown in your photo. (I just realized you can see this in my avatar.)

However, as I think about it, leaving a braid running down my back inside a hoody isn't really uncomfortable. If you've had the hood down and want to put it up, you have to take off the whole garment and put it back on again to get the braid to fall correctly, though.

It's ok, yes the light heartedness didn't translate very well for me, but that happens with typed text at times.

Even if you were being personal, wouldn't be a big deal as my perceptions of others isn't based so much on how or in what way they treat me. I can sense you're a good guy either way.

Corporate cooties? Now that is a cute phrase with a ring to it. ((((hugs))) back, and hopefully no socialistic, spiritual, semi anti capitalistic, pie in the sky ideals cooties rub off.

Rowan:

I have passed this comment along, but am unsure where you landed. I never thought of it before but ponytails and braids do seem to "exit" in different spots. I have short hair, so I really have no idea, but I can imagine how a braid (which seems to exit downward) and a ponytail (which exits rearward) would fit in a hood differently. In any case, we will explore. Thanks for the insight.

Consumers and retailers can help define how "corporations" behave, especially in the shrinking electronic world. "Corporations" are made up of PEOPLE who can control their own behavior. "Evil" has nothing to do with corporations (unless you think the very nature of business is evil). Anyone can make poor decisions. Anyone can drive smart ones.

Check this out from last week's Wall Street Journal.

Hi Michael,

I agree to some extent.

"'Corporations' are made up of PEOPLE who can control their own behavior."

I'm not a psychology expert, but i've read enough psychology, as well as been a keen, intuitive observer of people since i can remember, to know there is a very big potential difference between the psychology of the individual and the psychology of the group.

Usually, the psychology of the individual on their own is more positive on average. But when you throw in, authority, livelihood, group consensus, social considerations and self image in relation to the "pecking order", and other factors which pertain to a corporate (or any more group) environment, then things can start to get strange and disturbing when it comes to the actions of the individual within that context or structure.

Remember that study wherein people were told that in another room, someone was hooked up to electrical currents, and that if they didn't answer correctly, you would have to zap them….with ever increasing voltage/intensity…despite the increasing screams and eventual silence coming from the other room… Interesting how most people, while they seem disturbed by the reactions, continued on because the staff, the "authority figures" told them it was important to keep doing this no matter what. There have been other studies similar with similar results. There have been world movements that have borne this out, such as Nazi Germany which had plenty of good and decent individual Germans in same.

In other words, the majority of individuals are fairly easy to manipulate via fear, coercion, social pressure, etc especially in the context of the group and of authority. A truly individuated and self realized person who can completely stand outside of such pressures and who only follows their inner conscience is a rare thing on this earth, though thankfully seems to be increasing and becoming more common as time marches on.

So let's not over simplify the matter. History whether past OR present and psychology does not support the over simplified version.

Groups have an amplifying effect and tendency, they often can and do bring out the worst or best of us as individuals, *****especially depending on what the fundamental ideals and focuses of said group is based on, or the quality of the leadership at the helm*******.

With most corporations, the fundamental ideals and focuses is the bottom line, in capital letters. This is not a particularly constructive ideal and focus in and of itself, hence a number of spiritual teacher's or humanist's warnings about the trappings of over focus on material wealth and power.

Or in other words, like attracts and begets like, and greed tends to foster and amplify greed–particularly in a group/collective context. There needs to be more ideals and focuses within a corporation than just the bottom line, if they are to be more constructive in tendency as a collective entity with it's own sort of personality. Some corporations have these other ideals and focuses, many do not.

Which ones or kind have the most power and wealth in this world btw? This answers itself about the nature and trend of corporations. I hope Sierra Designs can grow into a large, influential corporation with a heart, a conscience, made up of many individuals and especially leaders who care about more than just the bottom line.

Me too.

Any feedback on the Pack Trench rain jackets?

Read one review

http://www.rei.com/product/865245/sierra-designs-pack-trench-rain-jacket-womens#tab-reviews

not good.

Anyone's experience any different?

deleted

The 11 oz jacket and chap system comes out next year. This 15 oz jacket is a different animal.

I missed this thread earlier. Love, love, love that you put a ponytail port on the women's hood. I've only had this on my own hand-knitted hats.

I might buy it purely based on that.

And that placement looks like it would work well enough for me. It's a hard variable to pin down, but my sense is a lower port might not work as well in terms of mobility. I can usually adjust the height of a ponytail to suit — only matters if my hair is on the shorter side and can barely form one.

Appreciate the attention to functionality on women-specific items.

Thanks Dave, I will delete my uninformed comment.

I notice that the jacket has a rating of less than 7000MM as a hydrostatic head. Most Gortex and Event jackets are 20 to 30,000MM. Maybe this is why it was leaking, although this is often just wetting through as the DWR goes away.

I hate rain.

Ketherine:

The port was designed for pony tails, and will fit a pretty wide range of tail locations. once the tail moves down the pack of the head, it becomes more of a "braid" than a "tail" and tended to work better for most women to keep inside…..

Dave:

We can't figure out why the industry has settled on 10,000mm of water entry pressure as the standard for "waterproof". (I don't think anyone offered 20-30,000mm, maybe you are thinking Moisture Vapor Transfer Rate; MVTR?)

Hurricane driven rain generates about 7,000mm of water entry pressure, and virtually all tents have 1200mm on their "waterproof" flys.

After getting repeatedly soaked here in the Pacific Northwest, and repeated testing of the various "technologies", I am becoming increasingly convinced that we have been approaching wet weather the wrong way for decades – ever since Gore started lying about their "guarantee" to keep us dry. NO waterproof-breathable (yet) can dissipate your sweat quickly enough to keep you dry when working hard wearing a pack, even in lab conditions with pristine DWR. And as soon as the DRW wears off, it's game over as you noted, since breathability instantly becomes zero.

Given today's technology, venting is the best solution IMO, and rainwear should be just that, rainwear. (not a multi-use "hard-shell") Light, venting shells that keep the rain off but allow as much airflow underneath as possible to reduce sweat build up. Keeping the air flowing around the "hot zone" (lap area) and torso (cagoule and chaps) makes it work much better, since these areas produce far more heat and moisture than the extremities. The second it stops raining, take it off……

Thanks Michael and I agree.

"We can't figure out why the industry has settled on 10,000mm of water entry pressure as the standard for "waterproof"…

That is the approximate pressure the average male exerts when kneeling. The convention assumes that the jacket and pants are made from the same material.

New HH and after-moderate-use HH is sometimes quite different. Hence some manufactures offer a tolerance for mid-life HH performance degradation.

My personal kneeling pressure (@ 190 lbs) is 12,954mm H2O.

"Hurricane driven rain generates about 7,000mm of water entry pressure, and virtually all tents have 1200mm on their "waterproof" flys.

"

Hi Richard:

I can't really read your attachment, but found it on the Hilleberg site so was able to see it there.

I have heard a lot of conflicting information about the amount of water entry pressure that can be generated by kneeling, pack straps, etc. The conclusion I have come to, which may very well be incorrect, is that the circumstances where water can be mechanically pushed through the fabric are difficult to achieve, since the pressure itself moves water away from the entry spot.

Of course, we have all gotten wet under pack straps but it is so difficult to know where that water is coming from; most likely sweat.

How are you generating your data?

When are these scheduled to become available for purchase?

"After getting repeatedly soaked here in the Pacific Northwest, and repeated testing of the various "technologies", I am becoming increasingly convinced that we have been approaching wet weather the wrong way for decades – ever since Gore started lying about their "guarantee" to keep us dry. NO waterproof-breathable (yet) can dissipate your sweat quickly enough to keep you dry when working hard wearing a pack, even in lab conditions with pristine DWR. And as soon as the DRW wears off, it's game over as you noted, since breathability instantly becomes zero."

I generally agree with the above, but would point out other systems like Paramo and Furtech which DO come closer to doing the abov. These are extremely breathable, and even when soaked, they are still significantly breathable, because they are essentially a windjacket combined with a light and very breathable fleece (it's a little more complex than that, but this is the simplified version).

Add in a silicone DWR that does not just wear off like all other DWR's, and you're good to go. This is what i did, i bought a Nikwax Analogy pump liner-a light/thinnish DWR treated-directional fleece hoody with 1/4 zip that weighs 8 oz, and combined it with my 4 oz 2012 Houdini with EPIC type DWR. Initially, i had some water leakage around the backpack strap areas, so i beefed up the silicone coating in key areas, backpack strap area especially, top of shoulders, top of hood–still quite breathable overall though. It's a very light, flexible, adaptable system. I always bring a windjacket anyways, and the Pumpliner also acts a a mid layer.

The downside is that it's a warm combo, so not best for temps above 50* F or so. Excels in the "trouble area" for most rain gear systems, the 32 degree to 45 degree with cold rain, but where it's warm enough to be humid and thus to sweat when more intensely active.

However, this segways to my other main system, for when it's warmer than 50 degrees:

"Given today's technology, venting is the best solution IMO, and rainwear should be just that, rainwear. (not a multi-use "hard-shell") Light, venting shells that keep the rain off but allow as much airflow underneath as possible to reduce sweat build up. Keeping the air flowing around the "hot zone" (lap area) and torso (cagoule and chaps) makes it work much better, since these areas produce far more heat and moisture than the extremities."

I took a Sierra Designs Storm poncho which i got for very cheap (15). I took some rather highyl water resistant EPIC nylon fabric and cut a rectangular piece to go on the front core of the Poncho–so on the chest, stomach, and upper thigh area. After i sewed it on, i cut out the previous fabric (polyester with PU coating).

While EPIC is not fully waterproof, the area it's on generally gets less water pressure and less direct pelting. If it wets out, not a big deal as i would have my windjacket on underneath anyways, normally with it fully opened up, and maybe also rolled up in the back. So if water ingress started to get serious enough, i would just zip up the houdini and no way water would get through both layers though yes breathability would go down with the fabric wetted out. However, EPIC and Deluge DWR doesn't fully and completely wet out in the typical sense, silicone being so hydrophobic and the coating so thick it doesn't just wear off. It dries SUPER fast, even once wetted out.

It would be great to see your company or another, offer WPB Ponchos that are durable and affordable. Heck, to cut down cost, you could use my idea and just use high quality WPB fabric like eVent in certain areas of the poncho, like the hood and front core area. Keep the back (especially the part that goes over a pack), shoulders, etc the highly waterproof and non breathable stuff, which is cheap and relatively light, or could be.

I have some great ideas btw, using a light WOVEN near microfiber polypropylene breathable fabric faced on the outside with a light, fairly breathable silicone coated nylon, and lined on the inside with something like nylon mesh.

Unlike the non woven PP stuff, the woven kinds of PP fabric can be quite tough, strong, and yet still light weight. Just hard to find this fabric by a non industry insider like myself.

Cagoule and Chaps are scheduled for availability on February 1.

Justin:

You just made my day. I had heard of Paramo but did not know much about it, and had never heard of Furtech, which I found really interesting because we were working on a "fur" approach as well, but with a different angle. In fact, there are two pieces we have in the works, one for Fall 15 the other for Spring 16 that very much fall in line with your thinking, but your perspective just blew my mind and made me realize that we could be thinking about it 180 degrees from how we are now.

But your whole premise goes back to the discussion that Richard and I were having earlier. Encapsulating (is that the word?) the yarns in EPIC does allow breathability and bead the water, but does not create much water entry pressure resistance. So water can "push" through (as in kneeling, in his example, which he says can create 10,000mm+ of water entry pressure). But as you said, and as we at SD have discussed hotly in the past, maybe all the WEP is simply steaming us up when we don't really need it, making us wetter. I have even heard, as discussed above, that WEP pressures for kneeling and pack straps are way over-rated….but I really don't know.

Anyway, this is awesome stuff, and thanks for the brain-shake.

Let me know if you need any fabric leads. It is easier to get than you might think……