Sierra Designs Cogule, Chaps, and Solar Wind Hoodie

perfect sizing and i would be happy to test the rain gear down south where humidity is a major factor.

Just sent you a PM, would be happy to test out the wind hoody.

Looks like good stuff Michael, thanks for the heads up. I hope you get some good feedback.

Sent you a pm, I would be interested in testing the wind hoody.

I'll second the interest in testing/providing feedback on the wind jacket. I'm outside hiking for work and play 6 days a week and use a wind jacket damn near every day of the year. Have tried every make and model available; currently switching off between a 2012 Houdini and a 2014 Squamish depending on the weather forecast. If I could find something in between these two I'd be one happy man! Although I'm used to no pockets at this point, they sure are handy to have. Nice to see a lightish option with those included.

All:

I remembered that I did do a video already on the Chaps and Cagoule, which is a bit embarrassing but I figured what the heck. We had just gotten the latest sample, and we decided before we sent it out for field testing we would "pre-test" in the shower, which I did after a good bit of "celebration" at our recent sales meeting. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but I found the full-on power of the shower a bit shocking.

Its a funky internal video, but does show the chaps and cagoule a little better than the images above, and you might find it amusing….

http://vimeo.com/97359919

Good move! I'm up for testing one. I replied to your PM with my address.

Thanks :)

Thanks for sharing new products Michael.

If you need more test subjects, I would be willing to test out the wind hoody.

I'd be willing to test, Michael.
Thanks for the opportunity!

"No membrane can "breathe" enough to keep you dry under EXECRATION."

Really?

I have execrated on numerous counts and still stayed dry.

From the other thread, Michael wrote: "If we could have lowered the CFM slightly while maintaining the garment weight we would have done it, but we wanted to err on the side of light weight while maintaining stretch and softness. We can hit it with a straight woven, but stretch-wovens are so much more comfortable. We are also making a straight out shirt with the same material, but a 415CFM back panel for under the pack, and wanted the same material for both uses. So in the end, we landed on 50CFM. Initial field testing has been extremely positive, so we are now re-thinking if a lower CFM as originally planned is actually ideal, since the 50CFM is much more wearable for sun and bug protection."

Just a few quick notes Michael, though… it doesn't really sound like you're looking for feedback–sounds like you already settled on something and are advertising it more so.

I don't think i've ever had a stretchy windshirt/jacket, and honestly the lack of stretch never occurred to me as an issue for straight backpacking. I could see a hard core climber wanting a stretchy fabric though. I usually buy a size up, from what i normally wear, for a windshirt so that i can layer as much as i want, and since i also often put it over my down camp insulation (helps with sewn through down jackets noticeably). As for soft feeling, well since i'm already wearing layers underneath, this is not much of a factor to me as i don't care about theoretical aesthetics. Heck, i would wear a scratchy, coarse wool mid or outer layer if i thought it would benefit me (it won't, so i don't, but hope you get the point). As long as my baselayer is comfortable, soft, etc, i don't care what's over same.

I like the idea of the 415 CFM back panel for the most part. However, if you are using a windjacket, like i often do, for light rain/drizzle protection, then that means your back will get soaked. What might be more effective, is have a lighter/thinner nylon mesh for the back and then some more wind resistant and water repellent fabric over same that you could roll up and secure, or put down back over the mesh depending on conditions. It will add a little weight, but will have a much greater comfort/climate range. Personally speaking, i would be all for that, even if a garment ended up weighing a couple ounces more, as i value flexibility and adaptability a lot.

Re: Sun and bug protection. I don't use windjackets for sun or bug protection. I use them for wind and light rain/drizzle protection. Usually when it's very windy, you don't have to worry too much about bugs anyways ;) I have regular shirts that do the above just fine, at much greater breathability than any windjacket and thus are much more comfortable in the sun or in warm temps.

Boy, i do wish you were looking for some feedback, because i just improved your jacket, without even seeing or trying it, by about 250%–where's my commission haha. Oh, and pretty please add an EPIC like treatment to the fibers like Patagonia did (does?) with the Houdini, re applying DWR's is expensive, smelly, and a waste of time with options like Epic. Most DWR coatings, should not be labeled "D"WR's, but TWR's. Durable Water Repellency vs Temporary Water Repellency coatings.

You should have come to BPL before fully designing and settling on the product's fabric, properties, etc You know, back in initial concept mode.

""No membrane can "breathe" enough to keep you dry under EXECRATION."

Really?

I have execrated on numerous counts and still stayed dry."

He probably based his assumption off of watching Doug.

"He probably based his assumption off of watching Doug."

I certainly sweat a lot when letting loose with a string of execrations…..

Michael, thanks for coming back for our input. Like Dave, I hope you get a lot of helpful feedback, your products certainly look interesting.

Hi Justin:

Always looking for feedback; just realizing that at this point in our development process the fabric development is complete, at least for Spring 15. It's always on ongoing process…..

One thing that I realized is not coming off clearly, probably because I called it a "wind shirt" (in quotes), is that this new stretch woven is a shirting weight. We never intended it for light rain, though I realize that is a big requirement for "wind wear". But this stuff is a very different animal. To demonstrate, take a look at these photos that use the exact same stretch woven on the front as the "hoodie". I am showing this sample because the woven color on the back was not dyed correctly, so you can see where the 50CFM panels and the 400+ knit panels intersect. The original idea was to obsolete the "fishing shirt" and "safari wear" and come up with a practical shirt that can be worn with a pack under exertion for protection from sun, bugs, and light wind while providing a little extra thermal protection than just a base layer. The "hoodie" version came later, and entirely uses the 50CFM shirting material, except under the arms. With a DWR, it would repel light rain (until the DWR wore off), but would not offer the rain protection as a standard 3-5CFM wind shirt. Increasing air permeability will reduce water entry pressure; the two are related. If we could make a 3-30CFM, 5000mm water entry pressure, 75,000g MVTR garment we sure would. But so far the "holy grail" has eluded us, so layering compatible pieces still is the best option for maximum performance.

It is possible that we would add a DRW to the hoodie version, and keep the wicking treatment on the shirt version. Curious if anyone has thoughts about that issue.

As I discussed with Doug yesterday, we did not even apply a DWR, in fact the opposite, we applied a wicking layer. But this fabric has many possible uses that could be pushed in both directions. It's one of the things I am hoping to suss out through the BPL feedback.

Anyway, I always appreciate the perspective. Hearing from informed and passionate users has been invaluable as we re-create Sierra Designs.

If the Solar Sun Hoody is to be used in a hot environment like the JMT in July, or on the bone flats in August –

– a non-adjustable close fitting "scuba hood", IMHO, is a fail.

Even if you are assuming a breeze will blow through and cool things off, just the contact with the hot fabric will be miserable. (I mean look at that guy's face!) There is no room for a hat and in a Hoody versus Hat discussion it should not be an "either or" choice.

Study the original Patagonia Tropic Comfort Hoody –

– if it had a 12" front zip (Not a full length zip with placket, ahem), it would be perfect. The hood is big enough to "float" on a ball cap, with enough fabric drape to allow good air circulation, and is designed well enough to Not blow off in the wind, even when unbuttoned.

[PS: Patagonia has a "new and improved version" this year… they opened the market for you]

Edit: What is the SPF on this garment?

Great feedback. Thanks.

Note the hood is indeed hat compatible. The center front goes higher than the neck height Patagonia, but still goes under the chin. I wish I had a better photo but I already sent the shirt out for testing. The idea of the hood is that there are no closures other than the zipper. It works very similarly to the Mobile Mummy sleeping bag, but with a smaller closure.

Funny, there are two different trains of thought developing for this fabric: DWR coated high-CFM wind shirt (where the hood as-is would be more appropriate) or a sun and bug hoodie, similar to patagonia. Our current thinking is that the hoodie would change to DWR treatment and fill the wind shirt need, while the shirt (pictured above) would be the sun/bug piece for warmer weather.

What do you guys think of that?

Also, the stretch woven is UPF35

Thanks again!

Just to add some confusion to the mix, check out the new "Push Pullover". This item is 3CFM, and uses a 5.2 oz/yard super burly stretch woven (same material that we siliconize in our pants). Total garment weight is 14 ounces for Mens large. Pass through hoodie pocket with a small security zippered compartment inside and ½ zipper.

Like all our "wind wear" no membrane. Very soft and stretchy, and nearly indestructible. Not super light, though. This is more of the "Mountain" piece…..

Check out the hood on this one for women…..

Now that womens hood is pretty cool. I'm not a lady and don't know if it bothers them having their hair inside of a hood, but that's a fun concept.

Long hair is an issue with hoods. Either you have to take your hair out of a ponytail and stuff it in, or leave it in a ponytail with an uncomfortable bulge. This option is not ideal for rainwear, but it is a great solution for other circumstances. Our developer Anna Kirner came up with the idea…..

So far only available for women…..

Rainwear makes a good first impression. Can you clear up the 10oz weight. Is that for the top, bottom or combined.

Thanks

combined. jacket 6 ounces. chaps 4 ounces.

Very exciting.

Not volunteering for testing duty (in the very, very dry southwest) but thanks for giving BPL'ers the opportunity. Very brave and forthright to expose the company to the lashing tongues of BPL. Even some anti-corporatists volunteered–I think–there are so many here it's hard to keep track.