fuel canisters

I think a lot of it is going to depend on the pot (surface area, conductivity, etc), water temp, and amount of water your boiling. You could always weigh the canister, boil one pot of water, and weigh it again to see just how much fuel it used, and figure out how many boils your likely to get given the content of one canister.

If you're doing just water and canisters though, there are easier systems to use than the Whisperlite. Have you considered taking a look at the Jetboil or MSR Reactor? Both may be a bit quicker, less hassle, and possibly better on fuel (no idea, just theorizing).

1/4 ounce of fuel to boil one pint of water

16 pints for 4 ounce canister, 32 for 8 ounce canister

You should try it though, to find out what works for you, although at alititude it takes less fuel because boiling temperature is lower.

Hi victoria,

Your best bet is to buy a couple canisters to test out your stove to see what your fuel consumption will be. Weigh the canister before and after you heat your water. Ideally, do this for a couple canisters to see what your average is. When you do this, try it with the stove wide open, low and to where the flames just barely cover the bottom of your pot (which is the sweet spot for fuel economy for me).

For example, I know my Soto ODR burns through .25oz of fuel to boil a pint of water. A 100g isobutane stove translates to 3.5ish ozs of fuel so I calculate 14boils per canister. Since you are using a different stove and probably a different pot, YMMV.

This is actually a conservative estimate for me as I a) will sometimes heat less than a pint of water, and b) since I don't need for the water to reach a boil, will turn the stove off once the water starts to sing.

IMO this is a smart $16 investment for a new stove purchase.

"I will be hiking on the JMT this July. I usually use esbit tablets or wood to cook but understand only canister type fuel will be allowed this year because of fire danger."

Which federal jurisdiction stated this? Or, is this rumor?

I'm curious, because I asked the various parks and forests. So far, I got mostly no response at all. One responded that butane, alcohol, and Esbit were legal for stoves in the backcountry. Wood is a completely different subject because a wood stove is classified as a wood campfire, and wood campfires are routinely banned above a certain elevation in each jurisdiction.

I think some of the jurisdictions south of the JMT have tighter restrictions, but those don't affect the JMT.

–B.G.–

"IMO this is a smart $16 investment for a new stove purchase."

What is the $16 for?

Butane canisters don't cost nearly that much. As of two days ago, I was seeing $4.95 for the small ones and $5.95 for the big ones.

–B.G.–

Ok Bob.

Bob. I was told by a fellow hiker about the fuel issue. I live in northern Minnesota and do use wood or esbit. Esbits only out at Isle Royal. If esbits are just fine on the JMT I would rather use them since I know how many I use per day. I will save the MSR for shorter hikes when there is a fire danger up here….

"I was told by a fellow hiker about the fuel issue."

I think that it would be nice to have facts from the different federal jurisdictions, and not just rumor.

Minnesota and Isle Royale aren't particularly relevant to the JMT. Each national park and forest can set its own fire restrictions based on perceived risk, and they also have the right to change the restriction levels as the risk changes through the season.

SEKI, for example, isn't banning anything (butane, alcohol, Esbit). That is only one large chunk of the JMT.

It would be nice if I could get Inyo National Forest to respond. I had asked Yosemite, and the response was that they hadn't decided yet.

I understand the fuel dilemma. For a trip that I have planned, I would prefer to take Esbit, and I have that packed and ready to go. However, when I go to the permit office to pick up my permit, I will ask about this. I will be fully prepared for them to tell me that Esbit and alcohol are banned. So, I will have a butane rig in my car that I can substitute at the last minute. However, what if I didn't have that rig in my car? What if I was flying in there from Minnesota or some other godforsaken place?

I'm not quite wishing this, but I almost wish that each jurisdiction would make a decision and then publish that to their web sites so that backpackers could plan.

This is your federal tax dollars at work.

–B.G.–

I tend to agree with Jerry.

"4 ounce of fuel to boil one pint of water

16 pints for 4 ounce canister, 32 for 8 ounce canister"

All my boils are one liter ( 2 pint) boils. I usually get

7 boils out of the small 4 ounce canister

13 boils out of the large 12 oz canister

CAVEAT: Altitude will affect the boiling point. Higher altitude = lower boiling point = more boils per canister, all other factors being equal (i.e. pot size, water volume and temperature).

If I miscalculate and run out of fuel, I just rehydrate my meals with cold water and measure the soaking time in hours instead of minutes. Only very rarely will I carry a spare small canister; 2 Esbit tablets make a nice substitute and are part of my emergency fire starter kit anyway on those treks when I'm not cooking exclusively with Esbit from the start.

GO HERE

I just got a response from Yosemite. There are no new fire restrictions, at least not yet. Butane, alcohol, or Esbit stoves are OK there.

So, what is this rumor passing around?

–B.G.–

Thanks Bob. I appreciate your help and everyone else who gave input. Esbit it is…..so much easier than fuel….
I only talked to my hiking buddy. Not sure where he heard it. Will have to ask.

All that is left unresponsive is Inyo National Forest.

–B.G.–

Bob. My friend wants to know who you talked to about the issue. My understanding of esbit tablets are that they burn hot but are not like alcohol if dumped over (which has never happened to me). They extinguish very easily if blown on. I explained this fact to him, but I think he is still nervous about me using them…..

I did not talk to anybody.

I sent an email message to Yosemite, SEKI, and Inyo. Since I got two responses, I've gone back to check, and web sites are being updated somewhat with new terminology. In those national parks, it is the backcountry office that sets requirements for backpackers.

I would still like to know where the stove rumors came from.

–B.G.–

Last year they had campfire bans at all elevations in Kings Canyon, but apparently they still allowed esbit.

This is one of those things where you if you call the ranger station multiple times you might get a different answer each time.

" I explained this fact to him, but I think he is still nervous about me using them….."

Esbits are safer than canister stoves in my opinion.

> I would still like to know where the stove rumors came from.

I appreciate your researching this Bob. Yeah, far too often rumors get passed around. This is where I read it:

"Alcohol stoves are generally not permitted in Southern California and are frequently restricted elsewhere…Several fires have been started by hikers who had an accident with their alcohol stoves. I hate to say it (since I’m a big fan of alcohol stoves), but alcohol stoves are probably not a good pick this year….Canister Gas stoves are really pretty safe and are 100% compliant with all stove rules for every land management agency — unless a total fire ban is put into place. If you want to be safe in terms of your stove use and fully adhere to the “letter of the law,” gas stoves are the way to go. " –Hikin' Jim

http://gossamergear.com/wp/blog/drought-fire

I'm not sure that either of those references will classify as federal jurisdictions along the John Muir Trail.

For one thing, what is Southern California? Some people would define that as anywhere south of Los Angeles. Others would call it anywhere south of Sacramento. I realize that there has been a lot of wildfire activity from the San Gabriels and south. However, this thread was an inquiry about the John Muir Trail only.

I reported on Yosemite, SEKI, and now Inyo is still unresponsive. Is any jurisdiction left out?

–B.G.–

"I reported on Yosemite, SEKI, and now Inyo is still unresponsive. Is any jurisdiction left out?

–B.G.–"

In the vicinity of Muir Tail Ranch,and north, the JMT is in Sierra National Forest, until it re-enters Inyo a little south of Reds Meadow.

Edit: For what it's worth, I have a copy of the Sierra National Forest "Order" regarding food storage, and it reads essentially like that from Inyo.

I got two more forest service inquiries fired off. Oh, poor choice of terms.

–B.G.–

I went through the whole jurisdiction contact process last year regarding stoves. The wording in the responses was sometimes odd. INYO said "You can use an esbit stove and any pressurized liquid fuel stove with an on off valve."
I've asked on two separate occasions when picking up a permit for an INYO entry if esbit was allowed. There was always a great deal of discussion between the senior and less senior personnel and the opinion was always yes, esbit is allowed.
Out of curiosity last year on a JMT thru I asked the ranger at Rae Lakes for his opinion on the ban on alcohol stoves (not esbit) that was initiated for SEKI in I think July 2013. He said he didn't understand the rational for it.
I stopped worrying about it. I use esbit and will continue to do so until the powers to be specifically ban its use.

Yes, that mixed/odd response is what I've gotten from Inyo before. My Esbit burner has never been questioned, and the subject of a special campfire permit has never come up.

That still leaves Sierra NF as the unknown. I think that's all.

By the way, just about any time that you camp overnight within earshot of the trail, there is always a chance that a ranger might come strolling by. That's why it is a smart idea to have the right permit and be in compliance with the current regs. Of course, some of us find it quicker and safer to be outside of earshot of the trail.

Remember the poor guy who was camped next to the JMT near LeConte Canyon, and he placed his full bear canister 50 yards out from his tent. The next morning, he found that some two-legged skunk had emptied out the canister of all of the food except for one candy bar.

–B.G.–

Personally, I just use whatever makes sense for the conditions.
I think esbit is way safer than a canister stove, so I will use that before I use a canister stove. I'm not all that concerned what the specific rule is considering all of this confusion.
Maybe I will get ticketed some day.
I've never seen a ranger in the backcountry before.
hyoh/ymmv/cyof/ect.