Am I forgetting anything for a Sierra trip?

[Nick Gatel]

How are you going capture you journey without a pencil or paper?

I am unfamiliar with "hitch materials." Can you explain this?

[TJ W]

Easier to hitch with the above. Black sharpie on tyvek with large letter written destination can help aid in getting picked up. My experience.

[Link .]

Andrews talk .

[Josh Brock]

"I forgive you for being a jerk!"

Your on an open forum,some of us are jerks… your forgiveness is not required.

"You're hiking in a straight line for 160 miles so its hard to carry a map with any decent resolution."

Wow how do the other "over 200 people" do it. or are there just a bunch of people wandering the sierra's in groups of 2-6? (sarcasm) honestly I like being light as the next guy but maps are just smart period. You CANNOT depend on technology in the wilderness. having sad that you will probably be fine with what you have…..Probably.

Plus maps just make me feel cool like Im an explorer or adventurer… Dont you want to be an adventurer?

Good luck on your hike Im sure despite some of our snarkyness you will have an unbelievable time.

Last piece of advice ditch the cot… have you tried some of the sleeping mats that you could be sleeping on for that weight? They are like heaven… try the 3.5 inch thermarest basecamp. also ther exped down mat 9 long and wide. Those two mats would save you the cot and the two pads and like I said heaven to sleep on.

[TJ W]

The groups of 1-6 people all are carrying something electronic basically. They follow the markers and sometimes check how many miles they've hiked with Half-Mile's iPhone app. That is the world we live in now bros. Your comment there seemed to miss a connection on logic… What do they all do? Use electronics and sometimes reference some specific paper pages they've printed off a computer.

I hear ya though…

But really the GPS and GLONASS abilities on the iPhone ivS and up are the best. And device is light. The point that paper maps blow away easier than losing an electronic device is well made. Old archaic technologies are appreciated but let's not presume its foolish to use your careful planning, good brain, e-device, and plentiful friends as good backup for directions. It's a pretty decently laid out trail. Thanks for good luck and thanks for taking my shooting back w a good nature. Good luck to you all.

Why are those snarks even on computers?

[M G]

"That is the world we live in now bros."

That is the world YOU choose to live in.

Even with the newest iphone in my pack I always carry a paper map. There is nothing comparable and nothing obsolete about them. They have served society for a long time and will continue to do so. I've made my living making the electronic versions you rely on so I appreciate their limitations probably as well as anyone.

And frankly if someone carrying several hundred dollars worth of Cuben gear approached me on the trail to ask me for directions or to look at my map with their dead cell phone in hand I would laugh at them and them charge them a very steep user fee.

Good luck.

[K C]

I didn't see a stove, the ursack isn't allowed in most of the sierra, I would bring a map, no iPhone and would skip the bivy. How do you fit all that stuff in the whisper? Seems like with food and water you would be up to 20#. "Pack less, be more"
I would like to see a spreadsheet with weights.

Or… You could put the cot in a hammock with a Xtherm on it inside a bivy inside a Golite SL 3 that's inside a HMG ultamid 4

[Anthony Weston]

Yes bring a map, the cell phone will not have coverage everywhere.
(Pacific Crest National scenic trail plastic map is 5.6 oz)
I thought the whisper backpack was made by Gossamer Gear and was 2200 cu.
But maybe I'm just not familar with the pack you are using.
If and when I finally do the PCT then I'll take a HMG porter or Zpack Arc Blast.
ditch the cot and get an neoair mattress or a Thermarest RidgeRest Solar.
Rent a bearikade bear canister etc

Most important of all, Plan your food and food drops.

Take your gear out on several weekend trips and find out what works best for you.
What's comfortable and what comforts you could do without.

[Art …]

I'm becoming more and more convinced this is a gag thread for the OP's amusement.
Stuck on assignment in some remote location . . .
or more actually, schools out and no plans for summer . . .

[Ken Thompson]

"Why are those snarks even on computers?"

That is the world we live in now bros.

[Josh Brock]

LOL I just went back and looked at your gear list. Before I had no clue what backpack you were talking about.. but, know that I've found it(finally) there is no way you will get all that gear in that pack with food and water.

Ps. seems kind of odd that you don't remember the name of the cottage gear company you bought you backpack from…… Cause it wasn't SMD.

[Jennifer Mitol]

I just don't see how that is possible…..

[Josh Brock]

"I just don't see how that is possible….."

With the gear he listed its not possible. He is at 6lbs with just the cot, sleeping bag, usack and backpack. But the backpack thing is really suspect kind of like the whole initial post(the more I read it).

and he is also going to carry and ipod,iphone and charger thats another pound atleast. Hell you havent even made it to his shelter, cloths and abundance of head gear hahaha…

[Marko Botsaris]

So FYI, bro, I work in what is basically a high tech silicon valley start-up, and I could probably hit Apple (and often would like to) with a rock. I'm *making* the technology. And I'm still saying – first bring a map and learn how to use it – horizontally as well as vertically. I'd personally be embarrassed bringing a lot of gadgetry into the wilderness anyway. Don't be like one of those 10 or so a year that drive onto some dead end quicksand road in death Valley (this is all new btw, with the introduction of this fabulous technology) and get stuck in the middle of nowhere because Siri told'em to. Whoopse! Siri missed the giant sign saying road closed in 1956.

If I catch you on the PCT and you take a call on your cell phone while I'm giving you directions because you have no map I'm gonna be pissed. LOL

All that aside, this:

http://www.flixxy.com/the-paperless-future-emma.htm

[Marko Botsaris]

"I thought the whisper backpack was made by Gossamer Gear and was 2200 cu."

Yeah I did a double take because I have one of those hanging in my closet and it is 3.5 oz. But then I was wondering if it was just a common enough name. I mean how many words mean really, really, really light?

Either way, I'd still like to see a picture of just that cot in any 11 oz bag. Guess you don't have to worry about a suspension system! Ba-da-bump. I'm here all week.

Anyway, it is an interesting kit, no question.

[afterdarkphoto]

I have a very distinct feeling this is a troll that just snared a lot of readers.

The term "rick rolled" comes to mind.

[Marko Botsaris]

"Easier to hitch with the above. Black sharpie on tyvek with large letter written destination can help aid in getting picked up. "

After Balls' and Sunshine's water was stolen, I don't know if I can trust someone with a black sharpie ever again.

[Rodney]

I have been going over and over this topic in my mind lately. I finally got a smart phone for Christmas and have been exploring the options in this world. I have been very impressed by the available apps and maps. Once a person has the phone which many have anyway, the cost of 24k topo maps is next to nothing. I got the entire USA for 20 bucks. Now I do not need to buy each section at 9 bucks plus shipping. So saving on maps is one of the most desirable features for me.

For battery backup I have 3 additional batteries at something like 1/2 ounce each. I figure with moderate usage 4 batteries total could last me 10 days which is most likely the longest leg on most trails.

I understand the fear of breakage, loss or some other malfunction. However, loss of connectivity is no longer an issue. A smart phone has access to the GPS satellites wherever a person might want to go.

I am going out the next few days with no paper maps, However, I am going into an area relatively familiar to me. So it is easier and safer than trying to do the John Muir Trail alone for the first time. In the final analysis, when I go out for long treks like I am doing in July in the Pasayten Wilderness, I'll take some paper maps as well.

What really interested me is the the strong reaction of BPL members to the idea of not taking paper maps. I have not seen such a reaction for other proposals like using a 12 ounce quilt in the mountains with an 1/8" pad. Interesting.

You all have great hikes this summer and lets keep helping one another.
Rodney

[TJ W]

I'm surprised at the tone of some of this non-constructive criticism. A few cite fantastical possible future meeting in the Sierra where they have a paper map and my phone has gone dead or has no service. For one… as I said the iPhone 4S and up get gps AND other PNT data (Russian system primarily). That is more ideal than any paper you have.

Use Google maps for precise trail mapping. Have you experienced imprecise trail mapping? Did it cause you to pause to figure out where the map is incorrect and did you waste your time with this? google map tool is better than any other mapping system I've seen, save a somewhat heavy dedicated Garmin-type GPS system, and I've tried many other apps, paper maps, and guidebooks. I've been on hikes with other accomplished through hikers and I started using mostly paper (easy to hold and to look at)… They were using apps. We settled on using their apps more than my not-precise paper maps. This is true.

On a long trail the only paper map I might bring that would be of much use without being too heavy is a map with the peaks clearly outlined.

Backpack is a Six Moons Feather. Misspoke. 11ozs is accurate on that. DIY mod to make the extended neck cinch up easier. (Btw– another reason I'm posting my list is that I think is the best possible pack plus contents… I hope a small manufacturer works to improve these odd bits I'm trying to make work… Example: I hope that a 1lb 10oz cot is on the horizon. It is certainly possible. I'll pay for a titanium version.)

Look I wrote this quickly without pouring over every detail. I did weigh the pack and it was 11.4 base weight without the tent and iPhone in it. Look at how light I went for the other portion of the big four (I'll say big four bc sleep is important to me and I obviously am looking for ways to be comfortable w that on trail)… Big three is as light as can be.

This has been tested. Seven days on trail already. I can send myself things I may miss via mail order. Nothing needed so far. I am safe from worst case scenario. I'm prepared for cold. Water is set. I'm surprised many people on this helpful site like to sound like scolds. Whatever. Live your own life. Carry a giant map set. Be a jerkoff on the web. I says world is changing "bros" as a humorous way to get you to look at something worth considering. Maps may not be needed with a working waterproof electronics case and battery resources.

Has anyone here felt how much nicer it is to sleep on a 2lb 10oz cot? It is very different. People take 40 lbs of gear up Denali. What I use is light. May go back to torso thermarest but it is not very comfortable. We'll see.

And what is with the proud declaration from some nags that they work in Silicon Valley. Good for you chump. Have you been on the trail for six or nine days at a time even? Really? Whoopdie doo that you can throw a stone to Apple. I work in satellite systems. Big deal. Tell me information that is important to the list. Everything is the pack has a purpose. It's hard to counter all the nags but responding to the head cover comment… There is a wool skully for cold, a handkerchief for shade/hitch help/neck warming at night, and a DIY cutdown balaclava for a towel/anything else its needed for. Some carry more than this. I think this works. Things like this I might adjust?

Man alive! I feel this list is being nagged at!!

[TJ W]

What are the controversies?

1- No paper maps.

2- Ursack

3- Cot that is about one pound over a large thermarest's weight?

Oh and planning to go w/o stove. Any other issues with this list? Safety concerns that it is only a vest rather than a down jacket?

[Marko Botsaris]

Hey, all in good fun with an intended light tone.

Didn't mean to hector you about technology, I merely intended to make it clear I am not (nor in my experience are most folks on this forum) a Luddite, and that my (and you will notice most peoples here) advice on not depending *entirely* on high tech gadgets alone clearly does not come from either a fear, or lack of understanding of technology. In fact the folk on this site have a rather high overall interest, one might say obsession with, technology.

The whole exercise is supposed to be to pick holes and nitpick your list as a whole, and you will seldom get a blanket pass from anyone here. So you have your answers, overall from all the folks here that spent a lot of time taking you seriously, in spite of all the usual joking around. As a few people have implied, perhaps too seriously.

You now have your answers, I think:

1. No paper map at all, (and goes without saying the skills to use it for more than connecting the dots on you planned route) is not a great idea.

2. Your sleep system seems ad hoc to most here, is heavy and bulky, but it is probably ok if you like it. It a few lbs heavier than a lot of people here would take, but you are not required to adopt such light weight practices. A lot of us find it funny, and we like to joke around here, but if you like it go for it. Almost no one is going to strongly endorse it here.

3. The Ur-sack is fine, unless you are traveling through areas where is illegal, which unfortunately is a good portion of the high Sierra you may cross through. I suggest you check. Since you have not been specific what route you are taking the folks here cannot help.

4. Some stuff on your list does not seem to add up, or seems to be missing, or doesn't seem to fit, either together, or in the bag you say you will use which has been hard to figure out. Next time if you follow the usual formula for getting your gear list critiqued and include everything you are taking, with specific weights and item identifications for all the items (as one persons said, a real spreadsheet would be great), people may be able to help more. Yes you might have "forgotten" something but often the help comes down to people pointing out alternatives, and especially things not "forgotten", but duplicated.

5. Now that you have mentioned your plan of going stove-less, there are a lot of people (and tons of information already here) here who might be able to help with idea for that as well.

6. Looks like you have a lot of luxury items. On here those are defined as things you want, but do not need, including stuff that duplicates other stuff. Too much water carrying capacity for the Sierra, for example. Too many pieces of headwear when a few carefully chosen one will do has been mentioned. Stuff adds up, especially if you are using a small pack. The advice you have been getting, when it is possible to analyze what you have told us, is to leave that stuff behind, or else thoughtfully add a few back in after you have figured out what you truly need.

So I think you *do* have what answers can be given from what we can see from you OP.

Enjoy your trip.

[Jennifer Mitol]

During my time here at BPL I have found one thing to be true: it is populated by 13 year old boys. Some in the form of 18-80-something men and women with a great deal of experience in the backcountry, but 13-year-old boys nonetheless. And I mean that in the nicest way: I feel I have found my peeps!!

We all joke around, some in good fun, some not so much; the criticism is harsh, no doubt…this is not the place if you want people to tell you your kit looks perfect! Most of us wait a good long while before we post our gear lists…girding ourselves for the onslaught to come.

I bring a nook to read on every trip…at rest stops, in camp, eating my breakfast…love it. Most people here would tell me to ditch it. I choose to keep it as a "necessity" to ME. But I know that when I post my list…it's going to come up. So?

You asked for people to look over your list. We did. Our role here is to look for what you may have overlooked, and point out that you have for things that all do the same thing that could be accomplished with one of them, etc.

I mean, come on, you HAD to know you were asking for trouble with that cot………….

[Marko Botsaris]

"I mean, come on, you HAD to know you were asking for trouble with that cot…………."

Now Jennifer, stop picking on him. He's sensitive about the cot!

[BlackHatGuy]

"During my time here at BPL I have found one thing to be true: it is populated by 13 year old boys."

So unfair. I'm much more mature than most of these other maroons. I'm at least 14, fer crying out loud!

[Marko Botsaris]

By the way Thad, in spite of what you may be thinking about us pseudo-Luddites here, the best and most comprehensive articles and advice I have found BY FAR on the subject of backcountry use of GPS navigation and other the technological devices are found on this site, including on chargers and such. Especially evaluations of failure modes and reliability. So an additional suggestion is to take a look at those. Please do make sure you understand the wost case scenarios (batteries not changing properly or fast enough, satellites not coming in, internal device failure, batteries not working in the cold, and especially the ubiquitous falling into a stream and having them all die at once, and so on) and consider having a backup plan. A 1 oz map in the bottom of your pack including all the escape routes to your planned route is a lot of backup for almost no weight.

If you search through the forums going back for a long way you will also see that there is a perpetual debate (as is only right) between two camps. There is the hard-core 10-essentials, don't-leave-your-house-to-get-coffee without-at-least-a-lightweight-shelter-crowd, and there is the I-will-be-fine, you-worry-too-much, reads-disaster-porn-for-entertainment type. The latter think the former are wimps and crybabies, and the former think the latter are boneheads and knuckle-dragers. All in a friendlily but competitive way.

As for me, I used to be in the latter camp, but had at least two experiences which changed the way that I looked at things radically. One was the experience of getting very close to hypothermic (cold enough to stop functioning well physically) alone on a 4 day trip where *everyone* warned me that excessive heat was going to be the big worry that time of year. So yes, I'm going to tell you to ditch the down vest and bring the full puffy MB jacket with a hood! The second was hiking in the mountains very close to where I live. It was overcast, it was cold, and it was 30 minutes to sundown. I knew I was 20 minutes from the road, but got turned around and suddenly for almost the first time in my life, I didn't know which way was north or south. I didn't have a compass or a light either. That feeling, however brief, is very educational. In 2005 I also had a friend, but someone I knew to be a bonehead, die in a boneheaded accident while backpacking, in a situation where I later felt, rightly or wrongly, that I should have educated him better, or else been there to bail him out.

I'm not going to go through a list of the ways your gear can fail, or how, though by no means likely, you can still very quickly get into a situation over your head as I have participated in many such tedious crybaby vs. knuckle-dragger exercises in the past. Mostly I find that there are guys and gals on here with world class experience in this stuff, like 100 times more than I will ever have, and a lot of them would never leave home without a paper map and the other 10 essentials as backup. I find that most convincing.

Now I will shut up.

[Author]

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