Should I be carrying more Dead Birds?

"I wouldn't get a pack from Arcteryx…..That's where you can tell they're just marketing the brand."

"Interesting you say that, yet you just bought a fleece from their casual line."

+1. Their fleeces have become their lifestyle brand. Their packs (including the Boras) are still respectable. How much technology can you put in a fleece when every major player is sourcing their material from polartec or malden mills? A arcteryx fleece is no way better than a patagonia fleece or mhw fleece that uses the same material, yet they demand $50 more at least.

>yet they demand $50 more at least.

It's stitched together with hair from golden unicorns.

i use their gamma and rampart pants, which are quite good

the atom LT,im less fond off ..

the fleece tops, i dont bother wearing outside, i save that for "social" occasions … i wear my cheap MEC fleeces climbing real rock

their harnesses blow out quickly (do an internet search) but then you just keep on taking em back to MEC or wherever …

the windshirts/vest/pants are quite breathable …but i would never pay 150$ for a windshirt, i put pinholes in em fairly quickly

base layers i use MEC or nike or wallymart/target, which i can get on DEEP sale .. they arent any less durable

the best use of dead birds IMO … city wear, especially in vancouver where one can look "stylish" and deal with the elements at the same time … thats not to say that they wont do the job like any other brand where it counts, but nice styling and colours arent needed for the great outdoors

if you are someone who wants a single piece for both the occasional outdoors, and standing in like at whole foods … and walking your dog in the rain … then dead bird is the way to go …

this isnt a knock on the "quality" of the gear …. because standing outside for hours in the soaking rain every day 6+ months a year is probably a better test than what many people put their outdoor gear through

the one thing that "gets" me is that they are charging $$$$$ prices for things that are made in some sweatshop overseas … at least with something like westcomb, which has superior "quality", its made in vancouver,bc

Doh! I also forgot that the collars are lined with the fur of baby canadian seals. Nevermind, buy buy buy!!

I know my fleece is the "casual" line, but by material, fit, and weight, it's ahead of the others I looked at and it was a steal. I'm not disappointed.

If anything, I think it looks pretty sharp. I'm not saying I care about looks when I buy technical gear, because I don't, but if I get the bonus of looking professional when I'm guiding a bunch of rowdy 18-22 year olds through the White Mountains, I'll take the boost to my perceived authority and expertise.

I digress.

Delamination factors on a lot of different stuff, but if Arcteryx backs their gear I'll risk my use falling outside of the "expected." That being said, I don't intend to buy a $600 jacket from them, not remotely. In my eyes, the Patagonia one I found for $150 is already overkill. Rain jackets for my use need to be small in packability and weight, and it's really hard to break over $300 when you're skimping on features and material as much as possible for weight and bulk.

I digress.

I didn't mean to imply that Arcteryx was the end-all, be-all of outdoors gear, but I DO mean to imply that the items I've seen so far seem to be a cut above, and if others have experienced long-term reliability and good service from this company, I can justify paying out $150 for a baselayer and some more for a pair of pants.

Eric…FWIW…You've just claimed that a civic/corolla will cost less and be more reliable than a BMW motorcycle. Beemers are bikes, Bimmers are cars. :P

"a good civic or corolla will beat the BEEE-MAHHH any day for reliability … and do the same job for MUCH cheaper ;)

just saying =P "

BOT…I don't own any dead bird bits.

-Mark in St. Louis

I find Arc'teryx stuff on par qualitywise with other brands depending on the item. I'm not sure what Dave U is referring to regarding Rab quility; every Rab piece I've owned is impeccable, and if I was going to go down the "pick one brand to buy backpacking clothes from" road, it'd be Rab by a lot. Cheaper, great fit and finish, simple but innovative, functional, and a very high % of there catalog that actually looks good (arcteryx has like 4 things that look good). That would be silly though, so buy individual pieces that fit your needs.

RE Phase SL, the Motus shirts are my fav for hot weather (like summer desert hot). Much more breathable than Cap 1 or other lightweight synthetics. I prefer Patagonia merino 1 most of the year. Something like Cap 1 is plenty durable (and easier to find cheap) though if you're just looking for baselayers for year round use.

My fleece was like $68 I think? Down from 140, which is still below Patagonia's R1. Not THAT expensive. What determines the "casual" line, the name? because this fleece does all the jobs a fleece should do. Be careful you guys don't make the same useless judgements that you perceieve others do when it comes to branding and names. ;)

>Be careful you guys don't make the same useless judgements that you perceieve others do when it comes to branding and names.

Huh?

I bought a fleece from Arcteryx that wasn't in the technical line. It was in the casual line. A couple of people brought this to attention, with the implication that there's a significant difference between the two.

However, the only thing that determines whether a fleece is casual or technical is the name. At the end of the day, I have a lightweight Polartec fleece, very warm, lightweight, with no extraneous material (unless you find the arm pocket useless) and a good fit.

So, I don't see what the difference is between "casual" and "technical." If you want to get technical, it's a great fleece. So far.

The irony, to me, is that the majority of people also say that Arcteryx is just a brand and that you should ignore names and focus on the merits. I agree! Let's actually do that!

When I said I wouldn't buy Arcteryx casual gear, I was thinking about the softshell with the fuzzy-bear lining or the cotton T-shirts.

"A arcteryx fleece is no way better than a patagonia fleece or mhw fleece that uses the same material, yet they demand $50 more at least."

It is better because the cut is better for athletic folks. When you raise your arms, the jacket doesn't move. Link please on the cost because Patagonia fleeces are VERY pricey.

Just a quick comment regarding Rab. The quality is so bad with their sleeping bags, two large internet vendors that I correspond with will not carry them anymore.

The two RAB jackets I have are just fine but I got them at a massive discount. No way they are worth MSRP – the quality is pretty shappy and the fit is not very good Both are very tight in the back limiting shoulder mobility and distinctly NOT an athletic cut.

Eric, the Corolla and Civic are very durable but the quality sucks – hard plastic interiors, prone to rust, second gear syncro issues (on the Civic), no power, etc. FWIW, the Honda Civic was pulled from Consumer Reports Recommended list because of reliability issues. If you want one, buy circa early 90's.

Brendan, yes, I find the RAB quality several notches down from Arcteryx. As far as look, this obviously comes down to personal preference. I am more interested in fit and generally Rab fits those of narrow shoulders better. I can't stand snagging zippers, like those on Rab jackets. But hey, that is just me.

Bottom line – if you can afford it then go with Arcteryx. If you can't and / or want second rate, go with Rab (just kidding).

Eric, the Corolla and Civic are very durable but the quality sucks – hard plastic interiors, prone to rust, second gear syncro issues (on the Civic), no power, etc. FWIW, the Honda Civic was pulled from Consumer Reports Recommended list because of reliability issues. If you want one, buy circa early 90's.

try again david ;)

azn civic rice rocket with stickers

BEEE-MAHH 3 series

Sure, here you go:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-40543357/consumer-reports-blasts-new-honda-civic/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2011/08/01/honda-civic-the-fall-of-a-brand-icon/

Dave,
Note that I included MHW in my comparison and wasn't strictly speaking of patagonia. Even when compared against pricey Patagonia pieces, Arcteryx demands a premium.
http://www.rei.com/product/808673/arcteryx-covert-cardigan-fleece-jacket-mens
http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-r2-regulator-jacket?p=25136-0-984

Patagonia fits very well too. It and Rab also use darting, gussets, and articulated cuts to allow a garment to move with you.

"The quality is pretty shappy and the fit is not very good Both are very tight in the back limiting shoulder mobility and distinctly NOT an athletic cut."

Care to explain about the quality? Was it the stitching? the construction techniques? Fit is a very very personal thing…even the term "athletic cut." What is athletic cut for a Kenyan marathon runner vs a olympic wrestler? Lots and lots of ice climbers use Rab with no complaints of mobility issues. Should be noteworthy that a lot of European alpinist are smaller than the western counterparts. ie., Ueli Steck weighs between 140 and 150lbs depending on what he's trying to climb.

I'm a smaller guy, but I consider myself athletic…I find Rab more in line with a traditional european cut, and arcteryx more of a north american box cut. It's the same thing you see when shop for suits and comparing american designers vs european designers.

the reliability graphs from consumer reports which you quoted, speak for themselves

how much "special" handling do you need unless youre street racing =P

but if you want to play that game … a car that consumer reports DOES recommend … and will do the same job as a BEEE-MAHHH for all LEGAL purposes …

the hyundai elantra … and itll cost less in gas, maintainance, and save you money to get to the great outdoors

and kill less polar bears as a result ;)

Yes, I had issues with stitching around both the wrist and around one of the shoulders of two different Rab jackets. The zippers snag for me as well. I also don't find the shoulder articulation as good in those jackets.

As far as fit, I consider athletic to mean wide shoulders and back, narrow waist. I agree it is a very personal thing.

And so is one's perception of quality. You may not see the quality to additional cost trade-off, but I do. Although as indicated before, I only buy Arcteryx on significant sale.

My 4c.

The only Arcteryx I own (because I do have other bills to pay) is a pair of Alpha SV gloves that ran me about $250. The reason I bought them is that I prefer gloves to mittens and had been seeking the "Holy Grail" of gloves for something that would keep me warm. One of my activities is snowmobiling (a common form of back country transportation and recreation in Alaska), and these gloves successfully kept my hands warm at -20F with the windchill incurred while riding a snowmobile. So on that note I'd say they were worth it.

Other than that, I can't afford it. I have seen some pretty good deals for Arcteryx on Steep and Cheap but even at 40% off it's bloody expensive stuff.

I feel you on the durability issue Max. Most brands assume that you are going to be hiking on a well groomed trail, not bushwacking through miles of deadfall and thorns or scrambling over abrasive rocks. It's just hard to know what is going to hold up and what is going to fail.

I got one of their packs (back in the early days of the brand). I used it exclusively for field work and I used it often and hard, lugging around field gear and the occasional found artifact (Damn, but those golden idols are heavy!). When I retired, I left it in the office, reluctantly. Went of a quick field trip with my successor the other day, and he was still using the pack. It showed no appreciable wear.

I have also had good experiences with Patagonia products. As type this I am wearing a Pat fleece jacket that is over thirty years old. It has saved my butt on a lot of occasions and I will never throw it out. With regard to expensive brands, look carefully at the product and the usage you contemplate. Sometimes they are worth the money and sometimes not.

that Don Morris is Indiana Jones.

I've habitually put up with cold hands. My mittens are all bargain-busting cheap-o terrible. I know my gloves are cheap since on my last three trips, I spent a good 30 minutes or so total feeling the tips of my fingers for signs of frostbite.

During the summer I'll find a deal on true mountaineering mitts and invest. Who knows- they might be Arcteryx!

I have a Kappa Parka, Atom Sv parka and Lt pants which I bought discounted, the quailty and refinement is better than New Rab gear (old stuff is fine) by a big margin and its just a small bit better than OR/Patagonia.

I've quite a bit of arcteryx gear dating back to around 2001. I've always bought it at 50% off or better mostly from steep and cheap.

The first jacket I ruined sliding down a face of ice they replaced no questions asked. Told me to just go to their site and pick the color and size and they'd send me it.

7 years later that jacket, the theta AR, finally delaminated on the bottom hem just like the link provided in this topic on the alpha SV. The same thing also happened at nearly the same time on a softshell I have.

I sent them both in last December and just yesterday got the email they are checking them out to repair and I'll receive another email in 10 to 15 business days when they might work on it.

I realize they are busy but I figure I may as well go buy something else as the product is essentially gone! So I did…

I bought a pair of alpha SL pants a few weeks ago on sale and used them twice before ripping a big hole in them on one leg. I'm not even going to bother mailing them in…just patch them up with goretex repair kit.

I still love the shells and the way they fit my skinny frame but the rest of their gear I've used has been inferior especially the softshell and fleeces…$200 retail for a cardigan fleece sweater????

Unless Arcteryx has EXACTLY what you want I'd look at other quality brands like OR, TNF (some items), LL Bean, REI (most items), Eddie Bauer First Ascent and my own fav, Cabela's.

And within these brands, of course, are the quality materials suppliers like Polartec, eVent and Gore-Tex.

If you are military or law enforcement (or know a friend who is) I think Arcteyx has discounts.

I am just tired of the name Dead Bird.