performance between single and double walled shelters

Its just the beginning I bet for you. The weight saving is probably even more if it then lets you move down a size in your backpack. The Notch is in region of 2.5L packed volume, how does that compare to your existing tent? (measure the diameter in cm, half it make the radius, square that number, multiply by PI 3.142 and multiply by the length, divide by 1000. e.g. Notch is 41x9cm, 9/2=4.5, 4.5×4.5=20.25 x 3.142=63 x 41= 2483 / 1000 = 2.5L).

If you're looking to shrink pack to match the shrinked kit inside, there'a Golite sale at the moment. They are selling tents e.g. 1-man 1Kg for $120 delivered if you review an item and get discount coupon, see other threads. A Jam 50 is a fairly middle-of-the-road pack which should do through into winter, can get for $74.17 delivered.

Hi Nigel

> I only have to solve the tent-keep-on-ground problem of which I was my thinking my
> body weight primarily.
People have been rolled while inside their unstaked free-standing tent. And what about when you step outside to go to the loo?

I suggest that what you will need in winter will be mainly governed by what winds you are expecting. Snow loading may come second. A Scarp is nice, but in severe winds?

> In the UK, it never snows when its "cold"
Errr … I have a lovely photo of my wife Sue standing in the snow one morning, midway up the Pennine Way. That was up on the hills somewhere I think.

Cheers

Roger,the Scarp has a "UK" configuration with a lower fly, there are the crossing poles and many add additional guying points. I don't know the details but some reading this do. From reading the owners' thread on OutdoorsMagic, I'd say it is proving very sturdy once properly guyed.

There was an interesting thread a few months back (started by familyguy I think) about condensation forming inside a quilt under certain conditions. There was some talk in this thread about how a double walled set up would alleviate this by moving the dew point outside the bag.

Yes, I remember that being mentioned in another forum too. Yes that makes good physics, if you warm the inside of the shelter it will tend to move the dew point further away. *TEND* but not guarantee. It also depends what is the source of the damp. Damp from the human, the double wall will tend to keep that nearer, but damp from the air outside, double wall will tend to keep it out.

Mik, I had the Notch out today to seam-seal and I widened the poles and lowered the poles ak "storm mode". About 33inches is the useful widest you can get. I could actually fit a 36" stick inside but its protroding into the vestibule.

Video here

http://s334.photobucket.com/albums/m421/NigelHealy/Notch/?action=view&current=MVI_1932.mp4

You can also see more photos of "storm mode"

"The Notch is in region of 2.5L packed volume, how does that compare to your existing tent? "

My Denali is 17cm x 45cm which by my calculations is just over 10L!! It needs to go!

Thanks for the mentioning of the GoLight website although their 1kg tent is very similar in design to my current one. I really liked the Rainbow TT shelter as I can see it being more useful features wise and I really like that you can sit in the middle of it (highest apex point) and have and entire vestibule area in front of you to cook and do things in. Plus it's got an optional liner in it to aid in condensation issues not dripping on me.

That Jam50L looks the goods weight wise for a framed pack!!

Thanks for the options. Much appreciated.

Mik :).

@Sam Farrington: “One problem you will find with the Tarptents and their close relatives, is that the silnylon floor is often suspended, or hung, rather than pulled solidly taut inside the tent. This can be a problem when the floor starts slipping around, when you move, or on sloped ground. Even if you can adjust to the single wall, this slipping can be vary off-putting to people who are used to more conventional tents.”

@Franco: “That is not the case with the StratoSpire1, the Rainbow or the Notch.
(in fact all of the TT have a clipped to the end/corner floor. However you can also un-clip them)
Here is a photo I have just taken[….] Anyway you can also see that the floor is clipped to the poles in the middle and also to the PitchLock triangles at the end."

Apologies for another hijacking of this thread, but I’m looking for some help here. Condensation has not been any kind of trouble at all for me with a TT, but I have noticed a fair amount of slipping around in the inner of my SS1. I pitched on what was unperceivably sloped ground and found myself sliding down toward my feet more than a few times in the middle of the night. A possible solution here (besides even more carefully selecting my pitch site) is to put seam sealant on the inside bottom of the syl floor (which is already done on my SS1) and on the bottom of my sleeping pads, but I’d rather not. The SS1 does clip to the end/corner floor, as Franco has kindly indicated early in this thread. But the material connecting that clip is elastic with a lot of give (as indicated, I hope clearly, in the photos below). So Sam’s characterization of TTs not being “pulled solidy taut inside the tent” is accurate to me as one having moved recently from a more “conventional” tent.

Another distinction between the SS1 and the Notch is that the floor “clips” to hiking poles (with Velcro, I think) on the Notch and NOT on the SS1. At least, this is the case with my SS1. I don’t own a Notch and haven’t played with one, but perhaps the “slipping around” is sufficiently mitigated with both the elastic clips AND the Velcro-attached poles. Not so with my SS1. I’d consider modifying my SS1 myself to be able to do the same as the Notch, but I’m hoping to hear suggestions/thoughts for a solution from much more enlightened minds than mine here.

I don’t think this is a definitive “problem” with TTs, per se, considering this is the very first season the SS1 has been out. I’m absolutely wild about my SS1 and can’t wait to use it again for my next trip in a couple weeks. Design oversight? “Feature” (in the software development sense)? Perhaps…

Regardless, anyone have any suggestions/thoughts? Thank you!

If you're sliding on the silnylon, put some silicone caulk diluted with mineral spirits (1:1?) – I've done that with some success. Or Permatex Flowable Sealant ot McNett.

I covered maybe 10% of the surface in irregular blobs, smeared around

yeah I did that too. The video from TT shows to do that last as the spirit/silicone has thickened after doing the seams, presumably so it spreads less and so make more pronounced ridges. I did my floor last night but I think it hadn't thickened enough and became just painted lines. However, it looked exactly like the video.

ISTR reading some member say putting some drops underneath their mat???

Video at http://tarptent.com/seamseal.html begin at 1min30sec. The Amazon video streaming service sucks best to download the file and play locally

[video src="http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.tarptent.com/video/seamseal.mp4" /]

"I really liked the Rainbow TT shelter as I can see it being more useful features wise and I really like that you can sit in the middle of it (highest apex point) and have and entire vestibule area in front of you to cook and do things in. Plus it's got an optional liner in it to aid in condensation issues not dripping on me."

Your current tent is hugging the ground more than any of the TT you're considering. Reminder, the liner for the Rainbow is mesh, it won't blunt a windy chill as much as the more solid liner you get for Scarp, Notch, SS1. Everything else you said fine.

I don't know how long Golite sales are going to last, it seems they been doing them for 6 months now, but Jam 50 is a good pack for the money and you'll likely be pairing a smaller pack with the 7L smaller tent. Most who lighten+shrink their kit can get 1KG lighter from the pack itself. Golite USA only though…. I think….

Thanks for this suggestion, but I've considered the seam sealant approach to remedying sliding on the floor of a TT and some has been applied to the floor of my SS1 already. I'm disinclined to do the same on the bottoms of my sleeping pads as well. Any other thoughts?

I put silicone/mineral spirits on my bivy but I still slid around, so I reapplied, less mineral spirits in mixture and I put more on.

Better now. I'm using it on a few trips and if at some point I decide it's still too slippery I'l put more on.

It has been said that double wall adds warmth

I appreciate the comments, but I also hate anecdotal information like that

It would be interesting to have data – several tents on the same trip, some single wall, some double, maybe some with mesh and some with more solid fabric, some with floors.

What was the temperature outside, and inside each tent.

Then, how much does the extra fabric weigh vs how much would it weigh to add a little extra insulation to your sleeping bag.

I'm betting it would weigh less to add insulation : )

Another thing is wind speed inside and outside the tent. I've been trying to measure wind speed inside my tarp with raised edges 3 inches. I have an ADC Wind to measure. It measures only down to about 1 MPH. So far, I haven't got any measurements (above 1 MPH) but I haven't been in heavy wind condition. I suspect that even if it's 30 MPH outside, it will be less than 1 MPH inside.

If you take Roger's chart of wind speed vs height above ground, the wind speed is way reduced in the first 3 inches. And then the flow will spread out inside the tarp so the wind speed will be reduced even more.

Then, the next thing is, how much insulation would you have to add to your sleeping bag to make up for any added wind.

I suspect that adding a double wall – solid or mesh – won't decrease wind speed inside tent/tarp enough to justify adding the weight – better to just have a slightly heavier sleeping bag.

It would be interesting to see data.