Red meat is killing you

[Jeffs Eleven]

Ray Charles did little bit of heroin, made some great music, then quit and died an old man.

So, yes, a little heroin.

[Mary D]

I am trying to convince my children to lay off any cured meats (with or without nitrates) since their father and his father both died of stomach cancer (their father just last summer). Somehow they seem convinced that "organic" cured meats are OK. However, from what I've been reading (quite a bit of research since ex-hubby was diagnosed), it isn't just the nitrates that are the problem!

Unfortunately stomach cancer is rare in the US (although more common in Europe where everyone loves their ham and sausages) so doctors don't check for it. It was only when ex-hubby was hospitalized for blood clots that they discovered the stomach mass. He lived only a few days afterwards. His father had a similar history. However, ex-hubby's cancer was, unusually, almost symptomless–in fact, he ate a normal breakfast the day he died.

I've asked my kids at least to tell their medical providers and their children's medical providers about the family history of stomach cancer!

[Trace Richardson]

I came across an article that made me think of this thread …. just another perspective where the author addresses some issues that he feels may come into play in studies like the OP posted … you may or may not agree with his view, but just putting out there …. might be worth a read. :)

http://www.cavemandoctor.com/2012/03/13/red-meat-consumption-and-mortality/

[Ultra Magnus]

Funny coincidence: I was watching tv late last night (well, actually listening to it in the background while sewing on my 'mid shelter) and it was a show about what kind of life foms aliens would be potentially like, so they took a quick look at life forms on earth… First, they looked at grass and how it gets its engery- from the sun. Fine and dandy, but ti doesn't produce that much energy so it isn't able to do much. Which is why vegetables are, uh, "vegetables". Next they looked at a sheep that was eating the grass. It gets more energy from the grass than so it's able to do stuff like run, jump, etc. They showed on a plate how much grass (I think- was actually sewing) it needs to eat to power its brain for a day (or whole body? sorry). Then they showed in comparison how much grass it would take to power our brain- and it was a lot. Like a giant burlap sac's worth. The point was if all we ate was grass, we wouldn't have time to do much else besides eat. Or – we could just eat some meat, at which point they brought out a leg of lamb for the guy in the demonstration to eat. Which I that was in poor taste (pun) to eat a leg of lamb right in front of another lamb…kind of cold hearted. So their conclusion was that alines with enough intelligence to travel across space to get here would most likely be carnivorous and might look at us and our planet as another food source (paraphrasing).

But a few years ago I watched another discovery channel show where the scientists were arguing that our early monkey ancestor's (if you believe in evolution) rapid brain development that put them ahead of the other monkeys was because they ate red meat, and the rest stayed herbivores. Apparently the nutrition in red meat gave their brains a developmental kick start. So, according to them we'd still swinging from the trees if we didn't eat meat.

And that leads into an anecdotal story which is an issue I've heard can happen to vegetarians- and that's memory loss. I had a co-worker who, him and his girlfriend, were vegetarians. They ended up going to their doctor because of memory problems and their doctor's prescription was to eat some red meat.

Anyway- I just thought it was funny to see that show the same day after stumbling across this thread, and how it ties into other things I've run across regarding brain development and meat eating.

BM

[Laurie Ann March]

Ben F said "This all things in moderation dogma is bizarre to me. Certain things are just bad for you. Period. All things in moderation, including mercery? Heroin? Cigarettes?"

Seriously? You had to go there? I guess maybe I had more faith in people being smart enough to use common sense in relation to my stating what is a common figure of speech The reader is expected to be a reasonable adult and have some common sense. The point was… there is no reason an omnivore can't enjoy the odd bit of red meat or the health nut can't enjoy the occasional treat. It's about the overall lifestyle.

Sure… red meat may cause problems at low levels. Buy organic meat that was raised without hormones and unacceptable forms of feed. Be active… that goes a long way in reducing the problems of things like cholesterol and such.

Frankly, I'd take this study with a grain of salt. Oh wait… that's bad for me too. Maybe I should just live in a bubble.

In the article they blame red meat consumption on diabetes and heart disease. I am sure they mean type 2 diabetes which kills more Americans than HIV and Breast Cancer combined. I have a bit to say about that…. red meat isn't the killer here… more calories and fat than the body can use is the problem. Obesity from over eating is the problem. A sedentary lifestyle is the problem. Alcohol abuse and smoking are the problem.

[Mobile Calculator]

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[Kattt]

Well…some attempted a discussion, others didn't. I guess a new study should be treated as the gospel and not evaluated and given some time before just running with it 100%. Go figure.

[Tim Zen]

My non smoking frat brother dies of lung cancer at 50. My co worker with 31 marathons drops dead from a heart attack.

I had steak for dinner.

[Roleigh Martin]

Great review of the study (including the original study).

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/#axzz1p8fyv113

Denise Minger (the author) is most known for her critiques of The China Study and "Forks over Knives". She is not anti-Vegan, she is still about 80% Vegan, but after 25 years she found much more energy and health going partial animal foods. Her presentation at the Ancestral health symposium is a great one to watch:

[Kattt]

Thanks for the link. The article does a good job explaining the difference between observational studies versus experimental, which is the place to start when looking at a study, really.

[Ken Thompson]

I want veal. Fried.

[Laurie Ann March]

Thanks for posting the article Roleigh. It's an interesting piece. I find these discussions quite illuminating and I like that they really do make us stop and think, if even for a moment, about what we put in our bodies. That's a good thing to do.

I am interested in all sorts of other things related to food. One is coffee. I've read dozens of studies on it – some good, some bad. Some say it enhances athletic performance, others say it reduces it. Some say it is good to fight free radicals. I say this as I nurse a cup.

The other thing that I've been thinking about… all the additives in dairy. Example… gelatine in yogurt to make it smoother/thicker for the consumer. Xanathan gum and guar gum in the cottage cheese probably to add voluminousness or to keep it from separating. While somewhat natural ingredients… do they really need to be there?

[Roleigh Martin]

I find Denise Minger's writings fascinating, she writes very well and injects humor at the same time. I am also interested in when we put things in our bodies as well as what. Intermittent Fasting I am very engaged in these days. In the last 5 months I've lost 27 pounds (actually lost it in 3 months, been stable for 2 months), by engaging in intermittent fasting. My Google Profile (link on my BPL profile page) has lots of goods link on Intermittent Fasting (as well as other health topics, such as Prolotherapy, Green Smoothies, about Organic labeling, etc). I use Google Reader to quickly stay up on what's happening in backpacking, health and other areas. My goal is to stay healthy and be able to hike the John Muir Trail annually until past age 100. I've hiked the JMT with two people in their mid-80s. I think it can be done. It's my goal. I'm 62 now and so far am able to do it annually now for going on 5 years straight (12 years straight in the High Sierras).

[Jonathan Rozes]

Another interesting article, this one from Gary Taubes:

http://garytaubes.com/2012/03/science-pseudoscience-nutritional-epidemiology-and-meat/

Choice quote: "every time in the past that these researchers had claimed that an association observed in their observational trials was a causal relationship, and that causal relationship had then been tested in experiment, the experiment had failed to confirm the causal interpretation — i.e., the folks from Harvard got it wrong. Not most times, but every time. No exception. Their batting average circa 2007, at least, was .000."

[Author]

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