Red meat is killing you

Good.

Who's got my burger?
-Gorgonzola, lettuce, red onion, hold the tomatoes.

Here is a nice rebuttal – http://www.selfnourish.com/wordpress/?p=105

I mean, these people eating red meat, every day of the study, are they eating mcdonalds? If so, kinda biased statement to lump in all red meat. Was this funded by peta? Also, I am not convinced that chicken or turkey are any better.

They clearly distinguish between processed and unprocessed meats in the study. They also aren't saying that people who eat meat every day and people who only very occasionally eat meat have the same risk level–higher amounts of meat eaten have a higher risk. What they are saying that even an absolutely minimal amount of meat can cause harm. 110,000 people is kind of an enormous population sample.

This belongs in Chaff.

Mmmmm. Meat.

Seriously though. What isn't killing us?

Bacon!

And the Paleo's say…What?

Water is killing us. 100% of those who drink water die.

This thread is killing me. Think I'll go have some red water.

And the Paleo's say…What?

No idea; haven't read the study yet. I can repeat the standard disclaimers if you like, it's the usual blurbs about confounding factors, study design, etc.

I don't care. The 12 oz. filet I had tonight bordered on mythical.

Maybe it's worth reminding everyone that we've been dying since the day we were born! So, my goal is to live both long enough and happy enough. Umm, please throw another slab on the barbie for me will ya? Oh, and more shrimp please.

Just hike it off.

Is grass fed beef the same as your typical corn fed beef?

To the OP: Bullsh#*t!

I love these kinds of discussion threads because they exhibit one of the most interesting psychological traits that people show: confirmation bias. Basically, when people have a belief, they tend to accept evidence that supports their belief, but they reject evidence that contradicts it. So, folks who think that eating meat is okay find reasons to think that this study is BS.

Sadly, this is the same reasoning that allows people to believe all sorts of demonstrably untrue things: that Obama is a Muslim, that 9/11 was an inside job, that Iraq had WMDs.

I like to live by Bill Maher's words: "Science is made by scientists, not idiots."

" Basically, when people have a belief, they tend to accept evidence that supports their belief, but they reject evidence that contradicts it. So, folks who think that eating meat is okay find reasons to think that this study is BS."

True on both sides of this.

I don't totally understand the intense cognitive dissonance surrounding meat. Just as an example, Joe, you list in your about me wanting to avoid a heart attack, and then cheerfully boast of huge slabs of meat; meat that we've known for a long time will give you hear disease. I wonder why people do this with meat and not something like smoking?
I get that vegans and vegetarians can be obnoxiously sanctimonious and smug, but we've known for decades that red meat is incredibly bad for us. The McGovern commission in the 70s recommended we eat less meat, but industry completely flipped out about it and buried the suggestions.

"True on both sides."

Show me a study that eating read meat extends lifespan, and I will be open to it.

"Is grass fed beef the same as your typical corn fed beef?"

You would think it has to make a difference. I watched Food Inc, while not willing to blindly accept everything in that movie, there is no denying a cow that is being fattened in a yard being fed corn and god knows what else, living in disgusting, awful conditions that would make anyone gag…as compared to a free range, grass eating cow out in a field that is clean, moving around, and not wallowing in fe$es. Common sense says there just has to be a difference.

moderation in all things…

The only study regarding diet and extending one's lifespan that I know has held for a number of years, is that of a restricted caloric intake. No one has debunked that yet , that I know of. Everything else keeps changing: no butter – yes margarine- no margarine- little butter ok- olive oil good….,is just a little example and yes, I know that related to saturated vs unsaturated fats.
In traditional Chinese medicine, which seems to have addressed chronic health issues fairly well( western is still the best with acute conditions), meat can be beneficial to individuals that suffer certain deficiencies. It seems to boil down to the individual. What meat, how it is prepared and how much also differ according to the individual and the state of their organs. I am not 100% sold on anything yet, except eating a variety of fresh, unprocessed foods. I was a vegetarian for many years and now I eat meat maybe once a week; just seems to work out that way.
The study in the OP is not conclusive to me and so I will most likely continue to eat how I do now, most things in moderation.

I'll admit I have a bias, I really skeptical of things like this. I was skeptical when the Paleo diet came up, I'm skeptical now of the "no red meat."

I'm skeptical for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with a taste for red meat.

1. I don't know the details of the study. Did they adjust for factors other than red meat (exercise, other dietary concerns, lifestyle etc.).

2. Also who did the study? Are they reputable or do they have an agenda?

3. I'm pretty sure political considerations to cloud the judgement of the USDA at times BUT not always. Lots of people with unpopular theories say "the government/fill in the blank industry, have covered this up." Maybe, or maybe the theory these people are pushing just isn't widely accepted.

"moderation in all things…"

Precisely