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hellos! heres a neat article i found that may be good for the guys who dont have lotsa hills n mtns around. :) The bottom half of the page tells what workouts to do ta build your uphill strength if u dont have mtns. The very bottom, for stabilizer muscles is super important. Ya need those lil guys to keep you from gettin hurt out here
heres tha link http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=19742
torrey
I've been on North Kaibab twice but my memory is a bit foggy.
are there two houses along that trail?
which one is the "pump house" ?
who lives in the one nearest the Roaring Springs turnoff ?
Well, ive only been as far as roaring springs, Thats where the pump house is, some painter guy lives there, never seen him. Theres also a cabin at Cottonwood camp, its where a ranger/rangers live n stay when doing trail work. those are the 2 ive seen after Phantom….now if theres another past the pumphouse I dunno, going with you guys will be the first time goin farther than that :)
Did a long trip up on the AT yesterday. Not that it matters but I'm having a tough time figuring out if it was a hike or a run. I fast walked all the flats and uphills but did an easy trot on the downhills. I ended up with a moving averaging of 3.8mph which is my fastest hike but my slowest run. But I learned a couple of things.
1) I had been going back and forth on what pack or belt to take. I have that decided. I took my MLD Burn and tied the compression loops on the back together and it end up making a fanny pack with shoulder straps. Very comfortable and I will take this on the R2R2R. It nice because that pack and I have been through a lot together.
2) This may make trail runners cringe but I am going to take trekking poles. I did over 10k in elevation gain yesterday and the trekking poles allowed me to glide on the downhills and power the uphills. Given the R2R2R only has two hills I can always chose to stow them if they become a hinderance on the downhills.
3) My trip last almost 12 hours and I trialed the food that I had planned on taking. 1800 calories of Malto and the same in various candy bars. I was pretty disciplined in doing 300 calories per hour and I maintained energy the whole 40 miles. In fact it was the strongest 40 miler that I have done. I also took electrolytes as I did on my thru hike and I also did a healthy dose at the end and it was effective in keeping any cramping at bay.
One final thought. I have suggested to a few 2012 PCT hikers to trail run vs. hike in training if they are pressed for time. Based on my experience yesterday I think there that was solid advice. I am actually a much stronger hiker this year than last in spite of this being the only hike over 10 miles in the last six months.
Wow Greg, I'd say you are doing great and ready for the R2R2R as is..
A lot of ultra running is actually power hiking, and your overall pace is pretty good.
Some ultra races allow hiking poles and some runners do use them, Wasatch 100 and Hardrock 100 come to mind. Karl Meltzer even uses them on occassion.
From your PCT experience, you have your nutrition dialed in like few I've seen.
Greg- I've thought about trekking poles too, haven't made my mind up yet though
as far as packs, I think I'm going w/ my Talon 4 lumbar pack (possibly my 5.5 daypack)
while I didn't get a lot of running in this past week I consider it a good week, my runs on Wed and Sun were weathered out and I hit the stairmaster- this piece of machinery continues to kick my ar$e; Thursday and Friday my wife and I got away for a couple of days of x-country skiiing- this also thoroughly kicked my ar$e- so in summary a good week of getting my ar$e kicked :)
this doesn't sound like much, but I finally tried doing pushups again (have been doing them against the wall or on my knees) and was able to get 3 sets of 20- a long, long way from where I was before the impingement, but I can't tell you how good it felt to be able to do pushups again!
Mike
You're a machine Greg, awesome time on the trail! Running? Hiking? Poles? Doesn't really matter yeah, as long as you complete the distance you've set out to run and enjoy yourself out there in April, which it sounds like you will be prime for a good double crossing with training runs like yesterday.
I was telling Craig in an email this week that I have a healthy amount of nervousness mixed with a stronger dose of excitement, it's getting close. These next 6 weeks are crunch time and hopefully I will be ready for an enjoyable experience. One thing is for sure I will be scraping the bottom of the barrel climbing up S. Kaibab. Today was a solid 20 mile run for me and Dan with some steep climbing thrown in and some downhill running for the last 5 miles, but our time on the feet was 3.5 hours, so not a long run that benefits being on the feet for 4x that duration come April 14th, but still fitness building I think. Fitting in the slower weekend long runs is killing me! Its hard to get out for the extended time. I feel like I'm juggling 5 balls at once and dropping 3 of them by the end of the week. Hopefully this upcoming weekend plan work out, we're shooting for a ~30 mile run this coming up Sunday up in the Sacramento Mountains, starting from the Tularosa basin at 4,000' and getting up around 8,000+', then turning around and re-running our steps back down. Fun.
You all are inspiring me to keep on trucking!
I haven't even begun to dial in gear, most likely going with 2 handhelds, and my running pack. I'm toying with the idea of throwing in x2 24oz. bottles inside my pack in place of the bladder, for ease in refilling at the water stops. Bladders in general are a pain in the as$. I'll have my game plan dialed in before hand, but right now just keeping it together.
I just wanted to check in and let you all know that you guys rock.
That is all.
Eugene just saw in previuos post a plan to run at 8,000ft. are you getting that altitude in often? a big help come RRR day.
No Art, I really wish that were the case.
I live at ~4,000' and have access to several running/hiking trails locally that top out around 7,000', highest point in our valley is 8,990' (Organ Needle). The route leading up to Organ Needle gains ~3,690' from the TH, but the majority of the ascent is Class 3 scrambling, so not exactly running terrain other than the lower 1/3 of the 6.8 mile round trip route. A good workout either way.
It's a relatively short (1-2hr.) drive to mountains in the 10,000-11,000' range, but we don't typically make the effort to get out for those runs….gas and time of course! Our run on Sunday will top out around 9,200' if trail conditions are relatively clear up top.
Here's a link:
http://www.explorenm.com/hikes/DogCanyon/
The full route:
http://m.gpsies.com/map.do;jsessionid=7F4DEADD394C208B06A0466D7C87353B?fileId=xxcykjgmjomyyspf
We're planning to go beyond the top of Dog Canyon to Sunspot (National Solar Observatory) and retrace our steps back down. Dog Canyon replicates the climb from the Colorado River to the N. Rim fairly well I think.
5,409' ascent, roughly equivalent descent. 26 miles round trip.
Eugene,
Dog Canyon looks amazing, have a good run man. I've been spending quite alot of time up high lately, climbing many of my local peaks and all. But those pics of Creosote, Ocotillo and Yucca in Dog Canyon make me miss the deserts. Craig's been thinking about a long day in the desert, maybe I can talk him into a runabout in Gatel's back yard. I trust you'll treat us to some eye candy next week? I enjoy your photos, homie.
Just reading back through some of the things Mike and Greg have had to deal with along the way. Inspiring to see how well both of you handle the twists and turns (no pun intended) of ankle or back injury. I limped out of a 17 mile mountain run the other day, I'm fine now I think, but man it had me worried for a minute. Eugene's right, you guys rock. Props, fellas.
Adan- thanks, it has been a challenge at times- appears I've been in good company though!
I just ordered two handhelds (20 oz each)- I was going to use my Talon 4 w/ two 20 oz bottles, but while I can carry a few bits of clothing and food in the pack portion- more water would be challenging
soooo- I think I'll go w/ the two handhelds (will start training w/ them when they arrive) and use my Talon 5.5 pack instead- I won't have a bladder in it, instead two 1 liter platy's (one left empty)- gives me a little more room for clothing/food to boot
I'm pretty sure 72 oz of water should do me for the 7 mile stretch to Phantom, 7 miles to Cottonwood and 2 to Roaring- if the angels are really singing in my ears and I feel like a million bucks :), I can fill the empty platy giving me over 100 oz for the grind of North Kaibab
Mike
Mike
if you plan to use 2 handhelds, definitely use them in training between now and RRR.
the extra weight in each hand takes a little getting used to.
there are at least 2 ways to carry a bottle when combined with bottle harness:
a. with your hand thru the loop and grasping the bottle.
b. simply grasping the loop and letting the bottle hang.
and
c. you can even do a variation of b. by grasping the loop of both bottle harnesses in one hand (letting bottles hang) to give your other hand a rest, or eat something or whatever.
so several variations to keep your hands from seizing up over time.
there are many bottle harnesses on the market but my favorite is Ultimate Direction.
problem is I don’t like their bottles and they come as a set, so I end up giving the bottle away and using the harness with a different bottle.
Art- thanks, I'll give each a try. Ultimate Direction Fastdraw + is what I ordered :), I don't mind the bottles that came w/ the Talon so I can fall back on them if need be
Just a preference, I happen to prefer the Fastdraw + Extreme, which has a neoprene cozy around the body of the bottle. This comes in handy when I do beer miles. ;-) I kid……
In all seriousness though, the Fastdraw Plus Extreme (*ridiculous name) rests in my hand better and requires less adjusting and re-tensioning of the side compression strap as time goes by. Both the Plus and Plus Extreme are solid, comes down to preference and fit I suppose.
Mike, the cheapo classic Specialized bottles fit well in the Ultimate Direction holders, the mouth on those bottles are wider and easier to pour drink mixes and ice into…..not that we'll have the luxury of ice in April.
I never thought about the neoprene as a possible better fit- figured I didn't need any cooling so went w/ the +
the bottles that came w/ the Osprey are widemouth as well, nothing too fancy just a pull spout on top- they don't leak either which is plus :)
the real trick is running with 2 handhelds and a flashlight.
I run at night with both a headlamp and a handheld flashlight.
took a while to solve my preference for that one.
helps to have a narrow long light, with a wrist strap.
not sure how accurate this study was, but kind of poo-poos handhelds
all I know is anecdotally what I see in the ultra races I run.
most pepole at the front of the pack use handhelds.
bladders on the back become more common in the mid to back half of the pack.
I don't think the method makes you faster, but the fast guys must know something.
my guess is the study is not wrong, but the use of handhelds is more about efficiency of time than efficiency of energy, and that mirrors my personal experience. overall (time v.s.energy) the front runners opt for time, but they are in pretty great shape.
I have also volunteered at ultra aid stations. the handheld guys tend to get in and out of the aid stations quite a bit faster.
in a hike situation where time is not a central focus there may be better options than two handhelds.
Art,
thAt wrist light idea is good. I'm going to rig one up.
Mike: That study echos my intial thoughts: waving weight around is wasting effort compared to carrying it at a constant speed and height. Just like a pound off your feet is worth 7 pounds off your back and rim weight on a bike is much worse than frame weight, anything you're pumping up and down in your hand is going to be more energy expended. Much like having things lashed securely to your pack is easier to carry than having loose, bouncy and swinging stuff on your pack.
Maybe the elite runners have upper body strength to spare. Or maybe the seconds lost futzing with a pack are never regained, so they go with handhelds.
I've done both bladders and bottles. I haven't used a bladder hiking or running in a long time.
While bottles may take more energy, I think they're easier in other ways. I'm hardly a front of the pack runner, but I've come to like bottles for a few reasons.
My experiences:
-easier to regulate how much you're drinking; I don't like bladders because I cannot see how much water I have left. With bottles I can pace myself depending on weather/exertion- .5 per hour, 1 per hour, 1.5 per hour, etc. This is my main reason for bottles over bladders.
-faster to fill; especially annoying to refill bladders from streams- messing with hoses, etc.
-you can add calories to them more conveniently (i.e. Perpetuem- which I just discovered I like)
-personal preference; I don't care for drinking from hoses.
Bottles don't always have to be handheld though. I find I often only hold one while I have two in my pack; that's likely how I'll roll for the R2R2R. I don't notice the weight in my hand at all.
Craig- agreed, the inability to know what’s left in the bladder is definitely a drawback, as is the re-filling- it is very handy for drinking though
I’m also going to be carrying a bottle of Perpetuem as well, can’t say that I love the taste (orange), but it appears to be easy on my stomach and it’s quick/easy calories (and electrolytes) :)
I’ve really liked running w/ my Talon 4, bottles are pretty handy, has nice belt pouches and the main compartment is just large enough for a few pieces of clothing, food, emergency gear, but not quite large enough for more water and I don’t want to take the risk of running low at the Canyon- I think for a mountain run (or anywhere where water is more plentiful) it would be near perfect
Mike
Mike,
You're going about the waist pack all wrong brother.
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