2012 R2R2R Group – Training Log’s

[Art …]

…

[ben wood]

so, if you remember my mileage last week was all of 2.
on that 2 mile run, i felt some pain in my left ankle and walked it home. It was sore for a couple of days so i thought i'd take it easy. well on thursday i twisted the same ankle a little weird on a curb, OUCH. Then last night a stupid dog came chasing my little girls (not something I have any tolerance for). So i chased it away at a full sprint. just imagine a 165lb man in a down jacket chasing a 10lb, off his rocker, jack russell terrier down the street by the christmas parade. Now that the dog was scared of me it left us alone, but…..

today i can barely walk and the ankle is all swollen, SUCK!

looks like my training is probably going to be held off till after christmas.

[Mike M]

that does suck- sorry

funny you should mention ankle though, went for my run this morning and turned my ankle a little- didn't feel like much, I stopped for a second to put away a layer and suddenly it really hurt just putting my foot down. I'm about 3 miles back thinking this is going to be a long hobble out. started walking and every time I put my foot down it hurt, but slowly it started hurting less, although if I stepped on a rock or other hard object just right it gave me a crisp reminder. Eventually I started slowly (very slowly) jogging on it, then a little quicker, eventually I was near my normal speed (which is slow :)) to finish the run.

it's still sore, I've got it wrapped w/ some ice, hoping it's just a short lived injury (fingers crossed) as this would be my first weekend where I was going to get two runs in.

[Anonymous]

"I'm about 3 miles back thinking this is going to be a long hobble out. started walking and every time I put my foot down it hurt, but slowly it started hurting less, although if I stepped on a rock or other hard object just right it gave me a crisp reminder. Eventually I started slowly (very slowly) jogging on it, then a little quicker, eventually I was near my normal speed (which is slow :)) to finish the run."

Given that it was a minor sprain, you did exactly the right thing, Mike. Keep moving, slow at first, then gradually back to normal speed. It happens fairly often if you are running on uneven surfaces. One thing you might consider is taping it before your runs until it's completely healed, because if you go over on it a second time before then you will very likely end up with some serious damage.

[Mike M]

Tom- thanks for the tip, I'll give that a go- I want to get in a run in tomorrow if at all possible, I was hoping this would be my first week w/ four runs (well 3 1/2 counting today :) )

Mike

[Hiking Malto]

My goal for the weekend was to do 12 Saturday followed by 8 today. But, I had a great long run up on the AT yesterday and ended up doing 17 miles with 4k in elevation gain. I am sore today but not in pain. :) The question: given the extra mileage yesterday how should I think about my run today, my body is telling me to rest. I have never trained using the back to back long runs, are you supposed to be spent for the second run or should this run only be done when you have built yourself up enough to need the second day to get further improvement?

PS: I am getting much better at trail running, I only kicked one rock, one rolled ankle and two close calls on rolled ankles. It is also getting much more natural.

[Art …]

Great job doing 17 miles.
I would recommend an easy 3 or 4 miler the day after, simply as a rejuvenation run to help get the toxins out of your muscles.

[W I S N E R !]

Good advice Art.

Back-to-backs are tricky in my book; sometimes I wonder if they're harder on the body than a single, longer push. For example, compare running a 15 mile in the afternoon, followed by a 10 mile the next morning. That scenario, personally, sometimes feels harder than running, say, a single 20 followed by a rest day. It's hard for me to say which gives the better training- the single 20 helps learn to push longer, but the back-to-backs seem to be ultimately beneficial in building stronger joints, connective tissues (basically learning to recover from a beating faster)….though it seems you're potentially flirting with injury unless you're already a little seasoned at doing medium to long back-to-backs. Make sense?

Such a subjective thing…

[Art …]

to me, rest is the key ingredient to getting stronger, and not getting injured.

[Mike M]

does anyone have a clear, concise method (pictures please) of wrapping an ankle? if it matters, am guessing it would, the sprain is in the front of the foot and outside of the ankle.

I've made quite a mess of things w/ my taping :)

TIA

started out decently- this was the week I was going to bump my running up to 4 days; got a good first run in 8 miles- my longest, 2nd run was good as well (cold though 11 degrees!), 3rd run started good, but turned an ankle so it was about 50:50 run and walk

hit the old fashion stair master today- no doubt designed by Marquis de Sade himself! :) I was on an hour, varying the speed- it kicked my butt pretty good- I can see this as a definite life saver when the weather is unbearable- it didn't hurt my ankle at all either

[Hiking Malto]

I ended up doing a simple 3 mile road run this afternoon. It was amazing…… I felt better at the end of the run than I did before. I think this will have to be part of my next day routine after a tough run.

Mike,
That look seriously cold. After your post about the stairmaster I ended up finding one in the gym that I work out in while I'm traveling to CA. It was a great work out.

[Anonymous]

"does anyone have a clear, concise method (pictures please) of wrapping an ankle? if it matters, am guessing it would, the sprain is in the front of the foot and outside of the ankle."

Mike,

Google "ankle taping". There are at least 3 video demos and numerous written descriptions, with pictures. They should give you a pretty good idea of how to go about it.

[Mike M]

unfortunately there is a whole slug of them and all different :)

I think I found a nice simple one

[Anonymous]

"unfortunately there is a whole slug of them and all different :)

I think I found a nice simple one"

Yup. The one you selected is bare bones and hopefully will do the job. The 2 I watched were overly elaborate, IMO, but one thing they they both had that your selection doesn't is the vertical "stirrup" the wraps under the arch and up both sides of your leg, followed by the crossover taping that secures it and adds a bit more stability.

I'd appreciate if you let me know how it turns out, as I haven't seen this one before. Best of luck.

[Nick Gatel]

I am not a big fan of taping ankles and continuing to run. A sprain is an injury and IMO you need to let it heal enough until you can run without pain.

I am familiar with taping. When I was in high school I played on the basketball team for 4 years. The first 2 years we wore low top canvas shoes (this was a long time ago). Then my junior year the coach made us wear high tops to reduce injuries… and we had a lot more sprains. This is just a side note on high tops, which I know you probably were not wearing.

If you decide to tape your ankle and run, just do it for you runs. Take the tape off afterwards so you get full circulation. Oh and make sure you shave your foot first :) We used to use some sort of spray on our feet that made it less painful to take the tape off.

Good Luck.

[Mike M]

yuppers on the shaving- luckily my wife was there to intervene before I started taping! :)

the circulation was one of the reasons I was reluctant at some of the suggested taping methods- they were encasing the entire foot in tape, the linked one above doesn't make a full circle anywhere- I might add a "stirrup" or two as suggested by Tom though

I will only have it on running (or should say attempting to run)

[Mike M]

Eugene- nice pics, looks like New Mexico is looking a little like Montana :)

Mike

[W I S N E R !]

Nice pics Eugene.

On ankle taping…If you've got to tape it to run, I think it's a sign you shouldn't be running.

Good luck to all of you with the ankle issues, hope they work themselves out and don't take too long.

[. ..]

Right on fellas! Totally encouraging to see everyone hard at er. I'm jealous of everyone with mountains in their backyard. I'm dug so far into the prairies I could watch my dog run away for 3 days. I've been hitting the river valleys to get some elevation in.

I've paired some neoprene wading socks with my minimus' and had toasty warm feet down to the mid teens, the vibram has even stayed soft enough to maintain some traction. Havn't felt any need to put the screws to them yet. Runs have been in the 3-4 mile range, pretty flat though. The toughest part has been trying to think in miles and Fahrenheit!

[Art …]

…

[ben wood]

art,
i am now 33. i haven't been very active since high school and lots of skating in college until backpacking. I started running off and on at about 30. i've lost close to 30 lbs since then. anyhow it seems my body is a little slower at healing and the best thing i can do is take it easy and slow, which is sometimes hard to do. every time i've been close to an injury rest is the best thing. in my case i'm planning on holding off till after christmas, may not be necessary for some, but i'm also hoping to do a quick backpacking trip near christmas.

anyhow, just thought i'd share my thoughts as a "not necessarily in my prime but probably should be" especially considering endurance events.

all i can say is that i hope too see you and all the others at the grand canyon in april, i'll probably be the slow tattooed guy coming in really really late!

[Nick Gatel]

"I tend to run through injuries as long as they are minor. usually back off the normal workout to an easy "rejuvenation" level, meaning shorter and less intense.
For me, this active rest seems more beneficial than full scale immobile rest.
of course this is for minor issues."

This is where working in the gym shines. You can work certain muscles without stressing something that is injured. One thing is to listen to your body. Running through minor injuries is common, but if things don't get better soon, time to re-evaluate. One common running problem is shin splints that turn into stress fractures.

[Mike M]

I think there is a lot more folks going into the camp of light use for minor (emphasis on minor) injuries vs total rest. It makes some sense as the light use should be promoting blood flow into the effected area. I had a calf injury earlier in the year that I initially used RICE, but started walking with the next day and within in a couple days slowly jogging, ditto on a groin pull a couple of months later.

You certainly need to be listening to your body and every injury is different (as is the way individuals respond to them), but I think there is some validity in light use with minor injuries.

Nick I agree, if running is out of the question- then there are likely other options available at the gym so you can still be reaping some exercise benefits even if injured. I was encouraged that the stairmaster machine had no ill effect on my ankle :)

[Eugene Smith]

Lick those wounds folks. I'm hoping you all recover nicely in the next couple weeks.

[Nick Gatel]

Mike,

When my son was a junior in high school he ended up with stress fractures in both shins before the cross country season even started. He was unable to run at all (Doctor's orders). So he worked out in the gym for almost 3 months. His first race was the league cross country semi-finals. He did somewhat poorly in that race probably because he had not raced in several months. The next week he won the league championship and broke the course record (these were 5K races). Then in the spring the first 3 races of the track season he posted the fastest high school times in the nation in the 800, 1600 and 3200 meters. So in a sense the gym work out was probably more beneficial than actually running. Of course not getting to run drove him batty, but his coach put together an excellent gym program for him. He went from a pretty good runner to an elite high school runner because of the alternate training program. One side note was that his groin muscles developed some problems. Bigger muscles and not as much range of motion as was needed. So mid-way through the track season a serious groin pull knocked him out of competition for most of the rest of the track season. He did make it to state finals in the 1600, but did so-so. The next year (senior year) he finally put it all together and came in 2nd at the state finals for both cross country and track. I guess the moral of the story is that for every action there is a reaction. The difficulty is figuring it all out. But 100% rest is not necessarily needed or even the best path. Also very competitive running is hard on the body, because you are pushing your limits to win. But taking the racing intensity down a notch is beneficial as we get older.

So we just need to know/learn when to back off to some degree. That is why for older runners I like to see a lot of base work, the intervals and other higher intensity workouts need to be carefully done. As we get older, it takes longer for the body to heal.

I sure am enjoying following everyone's progress. Makes me want to do join the trip, but I have a problem with races; I have to win or I am unhappy :)

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