2012 R2R2R Group – Training Log’s

Nick I understand your competiveness.
You can always just shoot for a PR.

…

Art,

When you are in your 60's PRs are hard to come by unless you are running a new race :)

To be honest, my goal everyday is to (1) wake up above ground, (2) have a great relationship with my wife, and (3) enjoy my hobbies to a somewhat high level of competency.

I don't worry about #1. #2 and #3 are high priorities.

"I tend to run through injuries as long as they are minor. usually back off the normal workout to an easy "rejuvenation" level, meaning shorter and less intense."

+1 Let pain be your guide. And keep it slow and short until you are back to normal.

"Re. ankle taping, I'd say it depends on if you are taping your ankle simply as a preventative, or you need it to get through your workout. you just need to listen to your body and not be stubborn."

Again, +1. I used to use it to be able to keep running, as long as the sprain was minor, and preventatively for races like The Dipsea or running really rough trails when training for same. If the sprain is serious, the pain should be enough to keep you from running on it, tape or no tape. If in doubt, don't run. Also, this might be a good time to get up close and personal with your local friendly Step Mill. The one thing you absolutely must avoid is going over on that ankle again. If you go over on it far enough, you risk knocking a bone chip off the inside head of the tibia, and that will put you down for a good long time, with possible surgery to remove it. Benn there, done that. Don't go there, Mike. Error on the side of caution. No single race/run, R2R2R included, is worth messing yourself up for the long run. If you've got good insurance, and the sprain is too sore to run on, this might not be a bad time to consult a good sports medicine physician or podiatrist, whichever has the better reputation in your locale.

"When you are in your 60's PRs are hard to come by unless you are running a new race :)"

Tell that to Clyde Davies. ;-)

so far so good :) I taped up my ankle (per the Mulligan method) and took a 5 mile trail run today. Was being extra mindful of foot placement and not going all out; had a couple of occasions that reminded me that I did in fact have a minor injury to my ankle, but nothing too bad at all.

I'll continue to tape my ankle and take it a little easy, but knock on wood- I think it's going work out :)

Who is Clyde Davies? A quick Google search did not turn up anything running-wise.

"Who is Clyde Davies? A quick Google search did not turn up anything running-wise."

My spelling mistake. It should be Clive Davies.

http://www.johnhancock.com/bostonmarathon/mediaguide/alltimetop10seniors.html

He ran 2:36 something, but I haven't found a link to it yet. It's out there somewhere. However, it was recently eclipsed by a Japanese fellow who ran something like 2:36:40. Can't recall his name offhand.

Okay, I'm friggin impressed!

When I was young I was a competitive runner. No way I can get any where close to those times. I have always continued to run a little, I just enjoy it. It was more fun when I had more hair to feel the wind blowing through my hair though :)

A few times I have started to train to run some master races, but then I start training too seriously as I am looking at age group times and then it becomes difficult to find all the time needed to be truly competitive. So I just do my own thing and never enter a race. That is how my brain is wired. Same in business, I always need to be the top producer. When my kids were little their mother wouldn't let me play Chutes and Ladders with them because I always won. The good news is that when my son finally beat me at Chess, he knew he truly won.

Good thing we don't have backpacking races, I wouldn't enjoy it any more.

But I am enjoying the kids planning and training for next year.

" It was more fun when I had more hair to feel the wind blowing through my hair though :)"

I'm bald as a billiard ball, and I always rationalized it by telling myself it gave me an extra edge running into the wind. ;=)

"A few times I have started to train to run some master races, but then I start training too seriously as I am looking at age group times and then it becomes difficult to find all the time needed to be truly competitive. So I just do my own thing and never enter a race. That is how my brain is wired."

You're probably better off that way, Nick. Running competitively is always a delicate balancing act between being honed and being injured, and when you get into your 60's you're courting injuries or just plain wear and tear that could prematurely end your hiking career as well. That's the gist of a conversation I had with a great rehab specialist coming off IT band therapy when I was, guess what, 61. He told me, "I can probably get you back on the road but, given your years of hard running, it would probably shorten your time in the mountains considerably. Your choice." After some thought, I reluctantly gave up running. I figured I'd already gotten my money's worth there. I have never regretted that decision, although occasionally a really good runner comes floating by, seemingly effortlessly, and something atavistic stirs deep within and I get a lump in my throat. "Once a runner" is about the best I can describe the feeling.

Awesome Mike!

Whatever keeps you in the game right? I'm not sure I would have it in me to take a drill and screws to my kicks. I have a pair of Kahtoola Microspikes that would fit you perfectly (Size L). If you're interested in them let me know and we can arrange something as long as you promise to put a point back in them when you're done. ;-)

Eugene- these shoes are on their downward slide, I'd be more hesitant w/ a new pair :) if these don't provide enough grip I just might hit you up on your offer- microspikes are probably something I should invest regardless

in other injury news :( my right achilles tendon is pretty aggravated- it started w/ an audible clicking I noticed when walking around the house- no pain however, now it's ramped up a bit and causing some pain- not shooting pain, just an aggravating pain

I started icing it last night and will continue w/ icing- also taking some ibuprofen, I've got two days of rest scheduled in- will reassess on Saturday

Mike

…

Having some experience running in a few mountain ultras that pack in the climbs, I feel that time on the feet is a better index of how we’ll fare in the canyon not mileage so much. That being said the two aren’t independent of one another either. Vertical gain and descent conditioning are also a big part of this sort of run. If this is a problem look to Michael Wardian for inspiration the guy has a treadmill in his basement and will bump up the incline while his kids play and watch TV with him. He seems to have fared well against a lot of guys who run in the actual mountains.

Anyhow, I keep a pretty steady run log on DailyMile, so I’ll go back and start from a few weeks ago:

Key:
M/T/W/Th/F/S/Su = Total miles; Time
##: miles
T:Trail
R:Road
Tempo: Pace to slight discomfort, but small talk is still possible
(####’):Total Climbing (estimated based on back logs; plan to log this more carefully in the coming months)

11/14 – 9(1250′)T/7(1100′)T/8(1200′)T/8(1200′)T/0/13(400′)R/13(400′)R = 57mi; 7h 36m
11/21 – 12 (1200′)/8(1200′)/8(1200′)/0/7(1100′)/13(500′)R/13(500′)R = 61mi; 7h 55m
11/28 – 7(1100′)/8(1200′)/0/3(100′)/6(500′)/15T(1000′)/22T(2500′) = 60mi; 8h 51m
12/5 – 0/8(1200′)T/9(400′)TempoR/9(400′)RTempo)/10(1000′)T/16(2000”)T/12(1000′)T = 64mi; 8h 36m
12/12 – 5(700′)T/0/4(100)R/0/0/0/28mi(1400′)R/T Marathon Fat-ass (3:53;1st place Overall) = 37mi; 5h 04m (marathon taper & holiday travel week)
12/19 – 0/0/0/0/5R(negligible)/4TempoR(600′)/4TempoR(600′)/0 = 20 mi; 2h 50m – Taking some time to recover from Sunday’s Marathon hoping to pick up late this week and start to log training in earnest for the R2R2R in January.
12/26 – 0/5(700′)T/6(800′)T/9(1000′)T/8(950′)T/8(950′)T/9(1200′)T = 45mi; 6h 19m
01/02 – 7.5(900′)T/7.5(900′)T/7.5(850′)T/0/5(1000′)T/10.5(1200′)T/7(2500′)T – 45mi; 6h 44m
1/9 – 0/0/0/5.5(900′)T/6.5(1000′)T+4(800′)T// = mi; h m

Training Log Here

I read a little of the ankle talk and my advice would be rest and ice. A few years back (and in my haste) I ran a relay segment on an already sore ankle. I ended up tearing a tendon at its insertion point to the foot. The worst part of this was I still had a mile to run before I could hand off to my teammate – I clenched my jaw and pushed through the pain, but I ended up paying for it with a few weeks on a crutch. I ended up doing a lot of laps in the pool to keep active. Taping is good for minor injuries or assisting in alignment, but when you're really hurting the best bet is to take few extra rest days and let things rebuild… Heal well.

I finally hit four runs and 20 miles! :)

my ankle feels like it's 100%, my achilles feels better, but not 100%

I found a way to tape for achilles tendonitis- seems to help, I'm going to get some of the Kinesio tape as it looks like it might work better than athletic tape

one of my runs was a road run (actually the side of the road off of the asphalt) that includes a pretty decent long hill, pretty slow going up, but down is another story- actually felt like I was running :)

Hey Mike – Glad to hear you're feeling better. I use KT tape whenever my patellar tendonitis flairs up. Here are a few things I've learned about it: Make sure you get a fresh roll (I have had good luck buying from "Isokinetics" a seller on Amazon). You don't need to shave the area of application, but what you really do need to do is put it on right (before bed is usually when I apply it) and let the tape cure. I have had problems with it slowly coming unstuck if I put it on within an hour or two of a run. If you pat it dry after showers it should survive for ~3 days. I've also trimmed strips if they seem too long for a certain application – make sure if you trim it that you round the edges. I also suggest watching the specific application videos on the KT tape site or youtube. Happy taping!

Dan- thanks for the tips, I did watch a couple of their videos- the tape looks like it forms better than athletic tape

I see they have a H2O rocktape as well, same price, might stay on better w/ running in the snow, showering, etc????

of course I am deeply drawn to the flying skull tape! :)

Mike

Mike- Yes, the tape is supposed to have the same elasticity constant as skin, so in theory when applied correctly (basically how tight you lay the tape down; see vids) it will stretch along with your skin and provide some extra support. It has worked for me in a few spots when I've needed it. I almost always apply the tape below my knee caps if I am racing a marathon or longer rather than have issues mid-race. It has a barely there feel.

I have always relied on the "KT" brand because that is the first brand I tried. KT and the Kinesio brand seem to be the companies that are most popular and visible at competitions (i.e., sponsors etc). I know a lot of tri-atheletes/swimmers use KT, but they may also reapply daily. I have not heard of Rocktape, but that doesn't mean they're not just as good.

Happy running!

Good on you for hitting that next level Mike. Keep it up, stay healthy and uninjured.

nice mike, good to hear. Now i'm the only one who is still sidelined.

do you have a link for the wrapping method you are using? i'd like to give it a try.

been keeping up with RICE, although I still have to be up and about so its not total rest, and i think that's my main problem. Every day at some point i put some real stress on the ankle and it hurts like a b***h again for an hour.

ben- that sucks!

been this is what I used, called the "Mulligan" wrap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEjKhf-qDJU

sounds like my sprain was a lot milder than yours, there are several other ankle taping methods that provide more support- they might be more advantageous for you????

if anyone gets mild achilles tendonitis this is the method I used in taping for it- I used regular athletic tape the KT or rocktape looks like it would be better yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLtD8zqZ_m0

mike

On what is perhaps my favorite blog, The Logic of Long Distance, Jeff recently posted a followup to an earlier post entitled "Rethinking How to Train". I think any athlete could benefit from the wisdom imparted here, but especially (obviously) runners.
Part 1:
http://thelogicoflongdistance.blogspot.com/2011/10/rethinking-how-to-train.html
Part 2:
http://thelogicoflongdistance.blogspot.com/2011/12/rethinking-how-to-train-continued.html

One thing I have gleaned from the two of these posts, that I have been trying to incorporate in my runs: Purpose.

I often (maybe too often) run simply to run. No real goal, no game plan, no set idea about what I will be training for on that day, or how that particular run fits into the bigger picture. Aside from the obvious- general fitness- I run to run, because I love it, because it makes me feel good.

As of late, I have been thinking quite a bit about purpose when running and have tried to develop a new habit. Prior to each run, as I lace shoes, rummage around for my ever disappearing favorite beanie, I try to bring one question into focus: What am I running for today?

The answer shifts, but lately, it has simply been to maintain a base (my "real" training for the R2R2R will begin January). Even so, while reaffirming such a general goal, it brings things into focus and becomes a sort of meditation that in turn brings purpose to the run: I am doing this today so that my body will be prepared to accept harder work in the months to come.

It may sound small, but I find it helps a great deal.

As an amateur athlete, it is very easy to get lost in self-doubt, laziness, excuses. Nobody forces us to do this. If I don't wake up at 5AM for my Saturday morning long run nobody cares. In fact, I have every reason not to go; cooking pancakes for the kids, sleeping in, coffee in the backyard with my wife…

Every runner knows it can be a tough to get out the door at times. It's hot, it's cold, it's raining, I'm too full, I'm too hungry, I'm too….I think sometimes we just run on faith, perhaps stubbornness, or even stupidity.

But by incorporating these short meditations, bringing my attention back to the bigger picture and how this specific run fits into it, the first steps are that much easier.

thanks Craig :) I really liked this quote "Training and training effect is series of applying stress and your base fitness level going down; and taking recovery and let the base fitness to come up and go beyond. It's the wave of this activity."

I too am attempting to get a decent base (got a long ways to go!), but I do try to incorporate purpose as well- one I'm trying to vary things- mileage, time on the ground, terrain, elevation gain/loss, etc

I'm also trying to insure that I don't get ahead of myself (riding the wave too long) and getting decent recovery time-injuries seem to be insuring this thus far! :(

Lastly I'm making sure it's fun and interesting, finding new trails and making new loops, running off trail, taking in the landscape and wildlife, relaxing

I think as the mileage increases these will become even more important