Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka “Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim”- BPL Group Run

Old Goats 50

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Would you consider yourself an 'Old Goat' Art? Best of luck to ya over the next 6 weeks or so. Looking forward to hearing how you run in the Ol Goat 50.

We're putting on a free multi distance (5mile, 1/2 mar, full mar) event in two weeks, check out our website:

http://www.sierravistatrailrun.wordpress.com

We're currently at full capacity on ultrasignup.com….didn't think that was going to happen. I wont be running the race but attempting to play the role of rookie race director, luckily we have lots of ambitious volunteers willing to hang out in the desert all day.

looks like a great event Eugene. how do you manage to do it Free? there must be some expenses. Best of luck as RD, looks like a lot of work.

and, well, I guess I'm an old goat, but the race isn't limited to my kind.

Hey Eugene, that Storm looks pretty good. I ran last night with my cheapie 40 lumen POS and I think it would be nice to have a lot more light. Only thing is the Storm is kinda heavy, does it bounce at all when you run? Of course, you probably float up the gnarliest trail perfectly smooth like a an escalator. I tend to bounce, crash and limp my way along so I need a pretty stable headtorch. The new XP2 says 80 lumens and almost an oz lighter, but if the Storm is not too bouncy then I'll check that one out since the price is close.

Regarding headlamps specifically for the R2R2R, I'd say go light as possible and don't worry too much.

April 14
Twilight – 5:29 am
Sunrise – 5:55 am
Sunset – 6:59 pm
Evening twilight – 7:25 pm

so probably 13.5 to 14 hours of usuable light without a headlamp.
headlamps for maybe 30 minutes to 1 hour in the morning,
and none to 3 hours at night depending on speed.

moon will be in final phase so won't be of any use, the sliver rising after 1 am.

when I do all night runs, I carry both a Petzl Tika Plus and a handheld flashlight for backup (plus extra batteries). I won't be doing that for the R2R2R.

That's good to know Art. Where do you find all that info about moon phases, good stuff! I need something because much of my daily running 6-9pm on trails and firebreaks. I'll keep my small light then for the GC.

this web site

Sun and Moon

@ Art,

I'm directing this with a running friend who works with the BLM, so he had some clout in pushing it through approval. We were able to keep this event free, by necessity (had to be a "noncompetitive" event and under 100 entrants) and also due to donations of time and resources. I have come out of pocket little to none, as have others. It will be a glorified fat ass style run, probably a good mix of first time trail runners and some very experienced- it will be a good time.

@Adan,

I wish I floated uphill! Im 6', 168, so not a small guy, running uphill isn't as efficient as it could be, but Ive grown stronger over the last few years. My good friend is a tiny dude, he weighs a scant 130lbs and is about 5'5", he can literally bounce uphill for miles with minimal effort….its both amazing to watch and frustrating to follow behind!

On the Storm, it is a little forward heavy in comparison to the XP2, due to the 4 AAA batts, but not anything really noticeable. If you cover shipping I will send out the Tikka XP2 to ya, a tiny tiny spot of JB weld or epoxy on the housing will keep the diffuser from sliding down mid run. Everything else on the lamp is in total working order and will serve you well. I used up some gift cash, otherwise I would just keep it. I'm a backsliding "No New Gear for 2012" follower.

Lots of great info here and in the other thread. I particularly learned a lot from the "fueling" discussion. Thanks for all the personal insight. Unfortunately, I'm withdrawing from this attempt. Just too many setbacks in training with my bum foot and work travel.

Good luck everyone.

Brad

Planned a 10 mile run tonight, called it quits and turned around only 5 minutes into it.

Came home and cracked a White Hawk IPA.

Sometimes it's all you can do :)

Maybe another time under different circumstances Brad.

I threw down a fatty green chile cheeseburger this evening Craig. Miles logged today? 0

Enjoy that IPA.

I'm with you, Craig. I had a particularly stressful day today and my daughter commented that I looked sad and that I should go running. She says I always look happy after I go running. She's a wise little chucklehead.

Hey Eugene, I'd be hitting the chile burger everyday if I lived in your area. A friend of mine brings me chiles back from NM, seriously good Rajas!

Tonight a cold bottle of stout. Tomorrow, a good mountain ramble.

VFW has a all you can eat fish fry every first Friday of the month, I don't think they made much $ on me :)

miles ran on Friday 0 (although I did hit the gym earlier in the day)

longer run (for me) planned for today though

I was very happy with my very long 4 mile road run Friday! Made it through with no foot pain. Will be trying 10 in a few minutes. Hopefully that will be pain free as well and I can start getting back onto the trail next week.

don't want to jinx myself, but figure it might be worth having a plan B(s) just in case my fitness level isn't up to the 42 mile limit

I was thinking two possible options- SK->Cottonwood Campground-> SK, figured that might be a natural turn around spot as there is water (well we hope there will be water!) and the terrain is relatively gentle up to that point, would make for roughly a 30 mile trip

for an easier yet option, SK-> river -> Bright Angel, that would be ~ 16 miles

Mike: I'm behind where I'd like to be because so much of January was -25F. I'm doing enough stair work that Rim-River-Rim and then some is all going to be fun, but I don't have the horizontal miles yet to be a happy camper after a full R2R2R. I'm not ruling that out, and ought to just go bundle up and walk the frozen beach everday (or Walmart), but I could imagine being more sane than macho come April 14th. No way am I running the whole thing – these trailrunning dudes are just a different species than I am. So it might be more "How far can I go in moderately-paced 12-14 hours?" than "How fast can I do 42 horizontal and 4 vertical miles?"

Is one way to look at it: You'll hike a comfortable pace for X hours, then turn around and take 1.5X to get back? X = 3 or 3.5 means River and back, 8-9 hours total – way doable. X = 4 or 5 means more of the NK.

-David

David- you guys have been getting hammered w/ the cold- I feel for you, it's gets very old in a hurry :(

"How far can I go moderately-paced in 12-14 hours?" I think that's the way I'm thinking about it as well

I'd love to be able to eat the whole enchilada, but I'll plenty happy w/ just a large piece of it :)

Mike

David and Mike
the little secret about us ultra "runners" is that we do quite a bit of power walking in something like an RRR. I've even seen the elite runners walk some uphills.
So you're not too far behind if you can keep walking.

RRR is doable, just depends on your definition of Fun, and how much you want to sight see.

Art- looking at the elevation profiles and taking into account the 42 miles- walking is most definitely in the cards for me :)

don't know what elevation you guys live at, but 7-8,000 ft will definitely be a factor for those not used to it.
I live at sea level and I know it will hit me.

Art- that part of the elevation equation won't be a problem for me, it's the part where you're substantially adding or subtracting elevation- that's going to kick my rump :)

Mike

Art,

Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know that one of the "runners" is a run-walker and not planning on doing a 10-hour round trip.

Regarding,

"don't know what elevation you guys live at"

From my house, I can p1ss in salt water. And we don't live on the Great Salt Lake.

The 6 hours of flights to Phoenix will be at a cabin pressure equilavent to 7,500 feet. I'll take any acclimitization I can get!

I was planning this exact same trip for late May and my Permits just got denied. Any suggestions how I could do this better?

Benjamin: You don't need a permit for this (or any other dayhike) in GCNP. Yet.

Yosemite has already gone over to the dark side regarding permits for Half Dome dayhikes even though there have been more deaths in GCNP then Yosemite.

But for a Rim to Rim to Rim, just show up and go. A lot of training between now and then is highly recommended. Late May will be a lot hotter in the inner Canyon yhan mid April. My 11-year-old and I totally lucked out late this last May (South Rim – River – South Rim) because it only got to 87F.

David, I'm pretty sure most of us "runners" will be doing a fair amount of walking, though I have a feeling Greg probably walks faster than I'll be running.