Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka “Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim”- BPL Group Run

I plan on running at least 15 miles of mountain on Thanksgiving morning. That, combined with no breakfast and piling up my dinner and desert plates but NOT going back for any seconds should keep me calorie-neutral…

Started my 18 week training countdown for the Los Angeles Marathon yesterday. Trying to make a concerted effort to shed some weight, drop my mile times, and run a PR. After the marathon I'll switch into some even longer running for the R2R2R.

Stay tough my friends.

yup- it's running in the snow for me :) it actually isn't too bad, the snow acts as somewhat of cushion, so it's pretty comfy to run on, I'll end up w/ some machine screws pretty soon as it definitely slick at times

my run yesterday evening was kind of cool as there wasn't a single human track anywhere- I followed a fresh coyote track for ~ 5 miles, flushed some sharptail grouse on top of the ridge and then jumped 8 mule deer in the creek bottom (where I took a little spill after miscalculating my jump :) and ended up w/ one wet foot)

I'm getting my weekly running base into that 15-20 mile range so that I can jump into the program I posted earlier. I am concerned about very cold weather though, we had a couple of days w/ below 0 already, but are now enjoying temps into the 40's for highs. I may end looking into some small race style snowshoes before it's all said and done too.

Mike

It was well below -10F until yesterday way up here north of the 49th. I've been on the rowing machine a lot. The cold has broke for now so I'll be out to take advantage tonight. This is going to be an interesting winter…

Mike – do the machine screws work for you? Running in the dead of winter is new to me. I think I'm in for a lot of trial and error. Any help would be appreciated. What works for you as far as trying to keep your feet warm and the rubber side down?

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Will definitely get in a pre-bird run. Don't want to look like one of those Macy's baloons.

Four day weekend for me. I'm going for my distance/time record on Friday or Saturday. Can't believe the tracking says both my shipments of hpl and bottles will be here tomorrow. How about that for free shipping.

Mike – be careful in that snow!

Devon- I haven't tried the machine screws yet, I'll let you know how they work when I get them in

I'm also looking at these as a possibility- http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwear/mountain-running/crossover- has a built in gaiter and gore-tex lined

can also use their hobnails w/ them

http://www.sportiva.com/products/footwear/accessories/at-hobnail-kit

I haven't experienced cold feet yet, though the temps I've run in have only been down into the 20's- I am wearing heavier socks though- Darn Tough 1/4 full cushion

a gore shoe should help w/ the cold, really cold I'm thinking a thin neoprene sock over a thin wool sock

definitely going to be challenging :)

If you want to send a little pow down here that would be most appreciated Mike. We're having a mild fall, "chilly" mornings and cool days, sunshine as usual. Yesterday we got a little bit of that wet stuff falling out of the sky, I had my running shoes and headlamp ready as soon as I got off work, couldn't pass up tacky desert trail and a windy run up my favorite climbing route.

Mike, the only downside to using sheet metal screws for ice traction is you basically render that pair useless once spring comes around and things melt off, but with all the abuse they'll be getting over the next few months I imagine they'll be toast before then.

I have 0 experience running in cold and snow, my hat is off to you for planning out how to keep at it during the dark months. Snowshoeing seems like an excellent option, you might not get the mileage you're looking for but definitely take a crazy cardio beating.

Hi fellas,

I've been watching this thread since its inception, and have come to realize that I am crazy enough to try this. The big question for me is fitness and injury – I'm not sure how my hip might hold up during ultra training. My new training program will begin in earnest December 1 after a long break to heal all my sore spots from my last long bout of training. I should know by February if this would be suicide for me or if my body will, in fact, hold up.

Stoked!

Eugene- agreed on the shoes, my shoes are already on the down turn (have a shiny new pair waiting patiently in a box :) ) so no biggie; the Crossovers it appears the studs are removable/reinstallable

any thoughts on South Kaibab vs Bright Angel- hear that SK is more scenic?? it's a shorter route, but steeper

I guess one other possible option (would require a little shuttle) is descend one and ascend the other?????

I've done South Kaibab to North Kaibab to South Kaibab, mainly becasue I didn't want to deal with a shuttle.
I've never done Bright Angel.

I know most runners seem to like going down South K. and then back up Bright Angel at the South Rim. There's no water on South Kaibab and there is on Bright Angel, but not a big deal to me, it's only ~7 miles from river to rim either way.

Personally, I'd prefer South Kaibab round trip just because it's what I know. Yes, it's pretty steep (but what isn't out there?), but to me it's a known known, making it easier to get my head around. Bright Angel, for me, is currently a known unknown…

"We know there are known knowns: there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns: that is to say we know there are things we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know." —Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

SK-NK-SK is 5 miles shorter (42mi) than BA-NK-BA (47mi).
I think that 5 miles would be a 1.5 to 2 hour time difference for the average plodder.

Bright Angel – nice views, water, bathrooms, longer
South Kaibab – nicer views, no water, no bathrooms, mule trains, shorter

FYI, mule trains are mostly on the Bright Angel trail, not SK. Only some of the supply/maintenance trains use the SK; PR passenger trips all use BA up and down.

There are solar toilets at Cedar Ridge on SK.

South Kaibab makes sense to me if it clears us of having to contend with the mule trains in the AM.

@Art, what were your original plans and what have you done in the past?

still trying to decide which route to run.

my vote would be South Kaiba for the simple reason it's shorter :)

George Matthews passed away last Wednesday, November 30th, 2011. His life was cut short around 5:30pm EST after a quick 20 minute run before it got dark.

He was a GREAT father and lived his life for everyone else. He enjoyed talking about his passion (backpacking and running) with everyone on Backpacking Light and I wanted to let you all know.

He will be missed…

Sincerely,

Chad M. , George's Son

I'm in shock.
While I never met George in person, I felt I was coming to know him online, and was looking forward to running with him at the Grand Canyon.
We'll miss you George.

Art

Chad- so sorry to hear about your loss. I also was very much looking forward to meeting your Dad this April. I know he was very passionate about his hiking and running- he'll certainly be missed here.

Please accept my condolences.

Mike Moore

Chad,

Like Art, I'm in shock. I always enjoyed, through his posts here, your father's sense of humor and good will toward his fellow BPLers. He will certainly be sorely missed.

Even through the filter of our discussion boards, we all knew George was a great guy. So sorry to hear this. And thanks for posting the great picture of him.

George Matthews is a testament, one of the best examples here, to the quality people and relationships that exist here within BPL. I cannot help but envy those that new him personally or crossed paths with him out on the trail or in his community, he sure seemed like a genuinely great individual, that much I know just in the brief conversations through this message board. I could always read a George post and learn something new, or be challenged, motivated, and encouraged. My heart goes out to the Matthews family and your deep loss, may you find peace in it all.

George will be missed in April and will undoubtedly be on the minds of all those that can make it.

After reading these posts it is very clear to me – although I was not fortunate enough to know him well – that George's enthusiasm for the outdoors, backpacking and trail running were contagious. As we delve into the canyon come April, I'll certainly do my best to channel that same sense of adventure that George shared with so many along his journey. My most sincere condolences to your family, Chad.

I am so sorry to hear about this. My condolences to your family Chad.

"Like Art, I'm in shock. I always enjoyed, through his posts here, your father's sense of humor and good will toward his fellow BPLers. He will certainly be sorely missed."

Add me to a list that will quickly grow long. I had a sense of your Dad from his posts that he was a gentle, caring person with a sly sense of humor and keen intellect. I had hoped to meet up with him at some point, but now that will have to wait a while. My condolences, Chad. BPL will not be the same without him.

Always a gentleman. I went to his profile looking for the big feet avatar and discovered that George had 52 reader reviews and 1843 posts. All positive and helpful and good- humored I'm sure. What a positive example.

George and Chad, May the peace of the Lord be always with you.