Machetes for bushwacking.

I am enjoying this thread, more so than some of the gun or global warming threads for example, as people seem to be homing in on solutions or proper actions. Folks are not
so far apart on this topic as a whole.

For organized trail maintainance or trail building, I have found a machete works very
well for overhead clearing as opposed to an axe or chainsaw. Some safety
stuff

!. If working around others, use a tight wrist loop. Like ski straps on xc ski poles, it
takes less of a grip and also keeps the tool from flying off if you do something
stupid.

2. Wear gloves to prevent blisters when in use and nicks when sharpening.

3. As mentioned, a bow saw is sometimes a better choice, more controlled and makes
for cleaner pruning.

As a side question, if this thread had been about bow saws, would this have generated as many responses?

"If working around others, use a tight wrist loop. Like ski straps on xc ski poles, it
takes less of a grip and also keeps the tool from flying off if you do something
stupid."

Be aware that if your hand does slip off the machete's handle while looped to your wrist, that big blade is going to be swinging back into you.

>For the lightest weight that I am aware of, the Condor Eco-Light 14"(14" blade length) machete weighs only about 13 ounces, is very good quality(Imacasa/Condor) comes pre-sharpened from the factory to razor sharp, has a safety-orange colored handle, and is under $25.

Real men can also use it as a straight razor. ;-)

This has been an fascinating thread, which has remained relatively civil despite some serious differences of opinion.

For a forum where folks discuss which razor-blade cutting tool is best because it shaves .1 gram from your carry weight, the discussion of 1+ pound machetes is an interesting change of pace.

Personally, I'd want to get expert training off trail before I ever carried one on the trail. The thought of being alone in the wilderness with blood gushing out of me sends chills up my spine.

Stargazer

Have you had that experience, or are you just postulating?

It was a State of Washington safety regulation to use a wrist loop long ago when that
was my job to build trail and run section lines. Not sure if they allow machetes at all anymore.

If you have a tight loop, there isn't much "swinging" if you release the handle, and the lack of mass of a machete (versus, say an axe) makes for much less force and damage if you bang a shin etc. Momentum is quickly lost.

""If you have a tight loop, there isn't much "swinging"…"

This is a good point. A strap/loop can be useful or dangerous, depending on the slack and how it's used. A proper strap will be mostly tight and if held correctly is not much different in its effectiveness, if you will, than using a trekking pole strap properly. If the tool slips, it will come to the end of the strap and stop against the wrist/palm, without swinging away wildly.

FWIW: here's a video by someone who makes Retention Lanyards out of paracord and shows how he uses them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxl7QW5kivs

If you can't go out and try it, try visualizing. The blade glances off a dead branch and
heads straight for your shin. You let go of the handle and have no retention strap. At the moment it contacts your lower leg, the centrifugal force would cause the blade to
move downward as well as back against you– slice, which would not be good.

If in that same situation, the wrist loop keeps it in line with the swing, there is no
slicing action, you still may get a bruise, but you won't be looking at stitches. (Assuming you are wearing pants. Haven't tried it in shorts. Don't intend to.)

"Have you had that experience, or are you just postulating?"

Yes, If applying first aid to the guy who opened up his thigh counts.

If you feel you must have a loop, a tight loop that goes through the front of the handle is best – hard to lose control of that no matter how tired you are. But provision for loops is usually found at the back end of the handle, where, even if the loop is tight, the blade can still swing the length of the machete.

I think it's better to recognize that you're tiring, and stop before you have an accident.

So this fella cut his thigh with a machete because he was using a wrist loop?

No doubt it is better to stop when tired.

I find a loop at the bottom works very well. Put your hand through and give a half twist
to get it tight.

He'd been brushing back a trail with the machete. Been at it for awhile. Swinging at some more brush, the plastic handled machete slipped out of his hand and swung from the loop he'd attached to the end of the handle. (I don't remember if the loop as attached at the top of the handle or on the little knob at the bottom – it's been a few decades). Without the loop, the machete would have gone into the brush or trail out in front of him.

The front curved end of the blade went into the outside of his thigh, through his jeans. He prided himself on how sharp his machete was, hadn't dug anything with the front, and primarily used the "sweet spot" in the upper center of the blade for hacking the brush.

I had a first aid kit so I put a pad on top of the cut (on top of the jeans), wrapped it to provide some pressure (no, I didn't cut off the circulation). We carried him to the camp, put him in the carry-all, and took him to emergency. I forget how many stitches.

You're welcome to do what you like with big sharp blades and loops, but I would never use a loop from the back of a handle to secure the knife/machete to my hand. Never.

YMMV

Mr. Barber wrote, "I think it's better to recognize that you're tiring, and stop before you have an accident."

Amen. And know what you are doing in the first place. Working with cutting tools needs training, practice and a large dose of respect. Swinging any cutting tool for hours on end is hard work and failing to pay attention for even a heartbeat will make you sorry.

Exactly, NEVER use a loop.

IF in company, make sure they are 40 feet away or more. If you ever do slip the average is for the machete to go flying into the brush on the side. If you are on trail crew FACING the side clearing then this motion could impale the person by you. If marching in line and just "brushing" as you go, one doesn't have to maintain the separation as far as if working side by side. Still 10 feet minimum more like 20 feet IMO. Wear a glove, therefore sweat soaks the glove still giving same grip. Also prevents blisters for all of us who don't use them all the time.

Get tired, stop or at a minimum swing less often. Biggest way to stay safe is to stay spaced from your coworkers by a large margin.

If blackberries, a weed wacker with a blade on it far surpasses a machete.

Besides if doing trail maintenance a grub hoe or pulaski is far better as you actually get the roots.

Whacking a trail works for a whopping 2 years. Using a grub hoe works for 5 years. Better yet, move the trail into heavier forest with said grub hoe.

Hmmm…. never even thought about or considered one.

I own two Ontario Knife machetes, a 12" and a 20" and would still rather carry my 14" Schrade kopis for cutting through vegetation.

A kopis is an ancient Macedonian angled sword the is extremely efficient at slashing due to its weight-forward design. Think of a long kukri that is not as angled. Mine is of stainless steel and heavier than a similar length machete because the blade is more than twice as thick and hollow ground on the edge. The d@mn thing just looks deadly.

Did I mention my Revolutionary War hanger (short sword)? (I was a drummer for the 9th Pennsylvania in another life.)
How about my current issue Army bayonet? Or my Gerber Parabellum lockblade or assisted opening lockblade or Case Bowie?
Then there are numerous pocket knives, river rafting quick draw, blunt tipped sheath knife, Gerber Multi Tool, etc., etc.

But I digress on my digressions. Likely I'd do my best to try to aviod carrying the weight of a machete or kopis.

I carry a K-Bar Cutlass machete. 16" long 17 oz. Very useful tool. I think it worth the weight. http://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-2-1248-2-Black-Cutlass-Machete/dp/B001H53Q80

Just a little perspective. For the record I practice LNT most of the time and always leave the woods with more trash than i took…but really guys, every boy scout, hatchet wielding adult, plant tramper, and switchback shortcutter ever to live will damage the earth less in a hundred years than a single big corporation will do in a day. Take it easy on mother earth yes, but it's better to get out there and love her than to spend the weekend lining the pockets of the real rapers. If a weekend that leaves a little trace, or a hacked tree or two results in someone who comes to love the wilderness, Mom can take it willingly.

Yes, I agree. It sounds like you are damaging the wilderness.

Good Grief, man. This is BPL, not a band of thugs out to stab a mastodon.

For the record, my backpacking knife weighs in at 2 grams.

–B.G.–

Maybe re-read the post. The only way you'll ever know I passed through an area is the missing trash I took with me. I meant to say that those who do some of the things I described are at least out in nature. If they come to appreciate her then despite the damage they do in coming to that point, it's a net gain. They represent a miniscule threat compared to corporate america. Perspective. It's like worrying about a termite when the house is on fire.

"If a weekend that leaves a little trace, or a hacked tree or two results in someone who comes to love the wilderness, Mom can take it willingly."

Mom don't like that kind of talk.

You never chopped at a tree or squashed a bug for no reason when you were a kid?

I live across the street from people who whack at animals and plants with sticks. They are the worst neighbors I have.I've held a pesticides operator's license and have landscaped for 25 + years. You seem to start off by assuming the damaged doesn't add up. Read this.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/07/the-martian-eco-chronicles/?ref=earth

"You never chopped at a tree or squashed a bug for no reason when you were a kid?"

Ooh, good come back.

Are we talking about ignorant children now?

Just saying that coming to love nature is a process for many people. They make mistakes. You don't come to love nature by not being in nature. I'm not condoning what some people do or saying we should not correct them, but it's going to happen when people get out in the woods. Better that than they should not get out in the woods at all…if it leads them to be respectful users in the end. You really disagree with that?

Look, most of my trips are pretty deep into places in British Columbia and Alaska into lakes where no one else may go for weeks or at least many days. I generally don't see anyone else when I go, but I often see traces so I know how long the impact lasts. People need to be careful. But in case you haven't noticed, this planet is dying, and it isn't boy scouts with hatchets or teenagers with beer cans that are killing it. It's greed, and it will take millions, no, billions awakening their love of nature or there will be no place to hike in not so many years.

Right on Tony! I couldn't agree more with your underlying argument. LNT is an amazing ethic, I adhere to it, and even donate to the LNT organization….but let's be real here….no single person, or even a thousand persons, breaking every single LNT rule on an outing into the woods would do a gazillionth of the damage done to the planet on an minute by minute basis by corporate greed/overconsumption/industrial logging/energy production….whatever you want to call it. Putting things into perspective is so important.

It would take about 5 million people cutting blackberry bushes with a machete on a daily basis for 50 years to create a mere fraction of the impact….to use a few random examples….of Plum Creek building the largest resort in Maine history in the Northwoods on the shore of Moosehead Lake….or…Sealaska clear cutting thousands of acres of old growth temperate rainforest in Tongass National Forest…..or APP razing millions of acres of peat forests in Indonesia to plant palm oil so people can have Coffee-Mate and Snickers.

If people are in the woods regardless of how they behave – it's a good thing.

Be careful with that machete Justin! …. and stick to the trails if you can, or as someone else suggested, try to find a game trail to get to your destination. It's the UL option. :)

Oh god it's this thread again, maybe starting this wasn't the best idea.

For what it's worth, cutting anything that can be easily cut with a machete and gets in your way won't leave much of a trace. It's soft plant material, it's not wood. Weeds and stinging nettles cut will crumble and disappear. Paths cut through blackberry bushes will grow back very quickly. I'm not talking about randomly hacking down trees.

To get back on topic, I love my tramontina! I have been using it a lot. I carry it fishing if I need to clear a path to the water, blackberry bushes and stinging nettles love to hang out along them. At one of my local ponds, I cut a trail to a nice bank and animals have started using it to access the water. Lots of deer scat. I carried one in Ventana, and while I never did any bushwacking, I would have been very glad to have one if I did. I actually kept busting it out to cut poison oak plants that were overgrowing the trail. I don't get it, but my friend does and he had shorts… The reason we didn't venture off trail.

"If people are in the woods regardless of how they behave – it's a good thing."

Bull$hit.