Machetes for bushwacking.

i have never really thought too much about a machete until recently. i have picked up a copy of a guide book with a whole lot of local tracks and trails, a few of which have not seen a human in quite some time & are very over-grown. so the only reason i was going to purchase one is for the purpose of track maintenance. i was looking at the New Zealand brand Svord as i have one of their Peasant knives & like it a lot. they do a 12" blade Machete & also an 11" blade Golok, but i havnt got any further than looking on the interweb, so will see what happens

I carried a lightweight machete for years for general trail maintenance and cutting firewood. And was always very careful, but the day came when one wrong move resulted in a very nasty and deep wound. I was very fortunate that a fellow hiker was skilled in back country first aid and probably saved my life. Had I been alone the outcome could have been fatal… I'd really give some serious thought to using machetes in the back country.

I learned about the usefullness of Machetes from some guys from Oaxaca I worked with for 3 years. I have one at work and one at home that I use when the thistles are getting big and just too many to pull each one out with the root…I really like mine for that.
I have never brought one to a trip, because I rarely do any bushwacking while backpacking. Now I am just waiting on a thread on how big a machete you need to ward off bears ; )

Just want to reiterate what Bob said; hiking with machetes can be very dangerous business. One little stumble and the blackberries might not seem so bad…

Are Machete's really Leave no Trace?

""Are Machete's really Leave no Trace?""

Justin is well aware of LNT practices…

The Bark River Golok is an awesome tool for work like what you describe. Expensive, but worth it. Only available when Bark River makes a run, because they sell out very quickly.

seriously guys, you won't admit it, but didn't you look up machete products on amazon and walmart after that Tarantino/Danny Trejo movie "Machete" ?

just like the sales of Rambo knives went through the roof in the 80s.

ok deny it.

Justin,

I highly recommend one of Andy Roy's (Fiddleback Forge) machetes. He had Imacassa make the blanks, to his specs, and he profiles and handles them each. I've got one of the original 12"ers (blade lengths are used to describe machetes not OAL generally, so add ~6+ for the handle on these), and it's one of the best machetes I've ever handled.

I grew up in Costa Rica, and was allowed to purchase my first machete at 10yo, so I've got some experience with them. Back in those days, there were entire stores dedicated to numerous quality machetes, with tons of options. These days, the rich central american machete tradition is all but dead, and 99% of the blades out there are 100% crap.

The 12" versions have slightly thicker (3mm) blades, that the other lengths, which makes them tough enough for batoning use, and hacking slightly thicker stuff. Another major advantage of Andy's machetes are the high quality handles utilizing the contours he's well known for. Pretty much zero hot spots and great grip. If you want to know how important that is, just ask my Dad. He had a handle slip with a big 18"er and nearly cut his leg off at the knee. He still tells horror stories of jungle doctors scrubbing the gash out with an abrasive sponge while using zero anesthesia.. ;

My 12" Fiddleback machete weighs 13.5oz without a sheath.

As far as khukris go, I recommend only Himalayan Imports. They are hands down the highest quality traditional Nepalese khukris available. I've got a fairly large collection (with a number of pieces by the last Royal Kami of Nepal), and they're unmatched in performance and value. If you buy a cheap imitation you'll regret it. The only other company that I recommend is Tora, if you're located in Europe, they're more convenient.

My main khukri for trail use is a 16" BAS model by Bura, that weighs 18oz, and is functionally indestructible. That's about as light as you're going to get with a khukri without compromising functionality.

Feel free to PM or email if you want to discuss it more. This stuff is pretty much my primary obsession these days. Also, I'm a knife maker myself, so if you've got some specific needs in mind, I can probably accommodate them.

"Are Machete's really Leave no Trace?"

I guess not, but if you are somewhere where you need to clear trail, I don't that cutting some weeds is the worst thing you could do. It would likely be in place of a well established trail, so it's unlikely that you will hurt anyone's feeling. I wouldn't just chop stuff randomly for no reason or chop branches, but blackberry bushes (most of them invasive) and nettles will grow back faster than you can blink…

Javan, what do you think about the Khukris on http://www.thekhukurihouse.com? The ones on HI are a little bit out of my price range.
I have been considering this one. Don't need anything fancy or the best, but don't want crap either.
http://www.khukurihouseonline.com/Content/Catalog/Browse/ProductDetail.php?PID=605ff764c617d3cd28dbbdd72be8f9a2|5b484c

How often do you really think you'll need a full-on machete for any length of time? Sure, even trail hiking, there is the occasional spot where the trail is overgrown – or nearly so – for a short distance and where I've often thought how easily a machete would cut a path. however, it was never long enough or dense enough to warrent the extra weight. I just go around what I can't go over or through.

Seriously, even bushwacking, most hikers are only dealing with Vine Maple, assorted sticker bushes, and other branches near their faces. A pair of common one-handed garden nippers will handle all but the largest of this stuff, are lighter weight, easier to carry, and one hell of a lot less dangerous to use. If you're clearing trails and/or anticipate heavier grade stuff, substitute long-handled branch cutters for a longer reach and more torque on the cutting edges.

I have carried garden nippers in my pants' cargo pocket and a 30 inch bow saw on hikes where I know the trails haven't been maintained for many years AND on which I'm willing to expend the time and effort to help brush out. The fallen trees and large logs I'll leave for the regular trail crews, who have the needed heavy-duty equipment.

If you're cutting your way through miles of continuous, heavy underbrush, Alaskan Slide Alder, or tropical foliage, maybe you're in the wrong spot. If not, then a machete – or a chain saw – may be what you need.

Any way you do it, say "good-bye" to UL.

As the boys on bladeforums might say, anything shaped like a khukri other than a Nepalese Khukri is known as a "khukri like object".
However, I'm not a slave to that doctrine, and I find other khukri like objects to be preferable for real use.

For a very satisfying khukri like object at a very reasonable cost, try looking at the Condor Kukri.
Condor is an El Salvadoran company which has a long history of top machete and working blades. The Condor Kukri has a 13" blade, is not overweight, and chops and cuts extremely well. It has a razor sharp factory convex edge, and I mean razor sharp, so be careful.

For a heavier chopper, have a look at the Condor Parang with the 17" blade. It is thicker and heavier, and will definitely cut better than a hatchet or as well as a small axe, but with a much longer cuing edge. This blade is great for heavy work, and it also is very reasonable in cost, and it is also razor sharp convex edged.
And they have a Golok and a Barong and Thai Enep and other styles that might interest you too.

For a standard machete, Condor makes many sizes and styles. I like the standard 18" machete for a general purpose camp tool.

Condor is a premium segment of the Imacasa machete company of El Salvador, and they are making some of the very best machete type cutting tools on the market today, for some of the lowest prices. 1075 spring steel with a very good temper and edge-holding, with tough spines that flex and don't break.

Once you clear an area with a good machete, it's hard to not bring one along. They can dig holes if you need to, chop roots out from under your sleeping area, clear brush, cut and split firewood, turn saplings into shelters or tent poles, and almost any cutting need or camp chore you could have.
The weight is usually in the neighborhood of a pound, give or take a little, depending on the size and style you pick. A favorite is the Condor Eco-Light machete which is thinner and lighter(I think less than a pound). And only like $16 bucks. The real cheap machetes might require that you put the sharp edge on them. The stuff over $20 all has a razor sharp factory edge.

I never hit the woods without one anymore, and its very handy to do yard work too.

I won't argue that Imacasa makes great machetes and machete type blades, but I will definitely argue against the idea that any of their or anyone else's "khukri shaped objects" are anything like as functional as a real khukuri.

It's complete apples and oranges, even if they both resemble apples. I've chopped down 20" diameter locust trees with my HI Ganga Ram and M-43s. I've chopped and batoned 12" diameter "logs" on trail with my 16" BAS. Using a 3" diameter piece of wood to beat the blade through.

I've broken 2 or 3 condor machetes simply chopping small diameter (3-4") growth.

Not trying to disparage them, I just recommended some machetes who's blades were made by Imacasa, but a machete is made for clearing light vegetation generally. A khukri is a serious tool.

As to Justin's question about Khukri House: Well, they're not considered anything like on par with Himalayan-Imports, however, many users have reported being happy with them from what I've seen. Personally, I don't own any, so I can't really give a definitive answer. I do know however, that once you buy one khuk, many more follow, and many of the people that start out as Khukri-House owners seem to end up eventually buying HI or Tora, and then deciding that they'll never buy anything else from KH.

You get what you pay for, and if you consider how much an equivalent hand made blade from even the crappiest custom maker from the US would charge for something like HI produces, you'll realize how much of a bargain they are. It's worth bearing in mind that HI and Tora pretty much have the top nepalese smith's on lock, by paying them superior wages and creating a superior work environment, which is reflected in the price, and subsequently, the end product.

Finally, to Bob, I can carry my khukri or machete, and still hit sub 5lb base weights if desired, and I feel like the assertion of what type of vegetation someone will run into bushwhacking is grossly generalized and understated. Maybe it's correct for your area, but it's certainly not for mine, nor much of the world I've frequented. For trail use, you're certainly correct, but off trail, can be infinitely more complex. I've been in jungle that you couldn't move more than a few feet a minute with constant machete work. YMMV of course.

"once you clear an area with a good machete, it's hard to not bring one along. They can dig holes if you need to, chop roots out from under your sleeping area, clear brush, cut and split firewood, turn saplings into shelters or tent poles…"

Depending on the ratio of native/non-native species being hacked apart (and other factors), this approach doesn't sounds too LNT.

Since I own my own very large acreage to hike and camp on, I can leave any trace that I decide to leave.
I generally only cut what's needed to be cut, but the decision is mine, and mine alone.

so, at 1 pound 11+oz for the either of them with sheath (you'll want that) , i have two of these things for LNT clearing the mumford bar north trail (it's a glorious and obscure thing .. been there since 1850)

the spec-3 has a way thicker blade and that's nice for a'hacking branches and dead stuff.
the gerber brush clearing tool has a curved blade and a stupid handle.

if i had to carry only one , i'd go with the gerber.

neither or both, whatever … replaces the need for a nice big bowsaw for trail maint.

safety wise, if your partner is using one too. stay the f way apart !

tips : it can't hardly get too cold a day for clearing brush. that is dang sweaty work.

v.

"I recommend only Himalayan Imports."

For chopping Himalayan Imports?

I ate many Himalayan blackberries last week along the Oregon Coast. Just getting ripe.
Time for pies.

Justin,
I am pretty sure what you are doing the removal of cutting or removal of costal vegetation is illegal in California with out a permit. Plus their are environmental issues like food and nesting for small animals and birds habitats being damaged. Bluff and soil erosion damage of the coast by damaging or removal of the plants .
Just go around or find animal trails instead of hacking away the vegetation.If you get caught by high tide take off your boots and put on wetsuit booties to battle the cold Norcal ocean, till you find a trail out.
Terry

"Justin is well aware of LNT practices…"

Huh??

Whatever, as long as he doesn't bring one into the Sierra.

Machetes and LNT aren't compatible, period. You just can't go around whacking stuff and justify it because you think you know the difference. The planet is shrinking: in my lifetime the world population has gone from 2.7 billion to 6.8 billion. You're part of the solution or part of the problem and I'd appreciate it if you would stop.

Javan: Have you seen or held the Extrema Ration Kukri? The price is incredible, but their tools are of the highest build quality…

Say what? I don't know about the left coast, but here in Montana not all forests are managed solely to enhance your and my hiking experience. (yes it surprises me too) In fact, (and I don't want anyone to get all teary eyed) it is possible for folks to get a permit to chop down a Christmas Tree in some areas.

Look not all areas warrant adherence to a strict LNT policy. When I am surrounded by slash piles, old dozer tracks and logging roads I feel a looser interpretation might be acceptable. Sometimes I like to spend time in those areas precisely for that reason. If you ever want to experience a snowy night in an open Whalen tent with a big fire in front this is where you do it.

Personally, I have used a machete enough to know I don't want to own one. I refuse to own a post hole digger for the same reason. But a khukri, now that's interesting! I didn't know what they were let alone that I wanted one. Thanks for the education fellas! Someday my family will have a garage sale to get rid of all my weird stuff and I am concerned there won't be a khukri in there.

BTW convoluted logic isn't part of the solution either. So please stop.

I recently got back from Isle Royale where I had planned to bushwhack a half mile to a shoreline cove to set up camp. Upon arrival at the island, I realized how thick the brush was everywhere and would need a machete to get through anything off trail. I quickly decided to stick to the trails to make my passage easier and to leave the untouched vegetation just that: untouched. It had survived millennia without me chopping or trampling it.

Even though some places don't really adhere to a LNT policy and there may be existing landscape damage, Dale is right that you either add to it or you don't. You either chop that limb off or you don't. You either leave scorch marks or your don't. There isn't really a "looser interpretation" of causing additional marks upon the land. Will a small fire mark be noticable among dozer tracks? Probably not that much, but that's why they are called LNT *principles.* We all make our choices.