Backpacking for the girly girl

Headnet +1

as someone who took his girlfriend on a trip that had a bunch of biting flies…. I can say my after trip present to her of a headnet was VERY well received. Also she has no gear, I've talked to her about pads, packs, and bag/quilts. What does she buy first? A windshirt like the one I lent her that stopped the flies from biting her.

Granted this isn't a common problem by any means. It's just about knowing your area, which I'm sure you guy does.

If you can get the gear all sorted out, there's really nothing a girly-girl can't do that your average ex-Marine can't do. I went on a long dayhike once and there was an older woman with perfect hair, make-up and jewelry who came on this hike. There was also an ex-Marine. The woman was way out in front the entire time, touching up her make-up at rest breaks. By the end of the hike, the ex-Marine was limping and wimpering and the woman looked as beautiful as she did at the start of the hike and was still out in front. Never underestimate a girly-girl.

OMG Kathleen–are you at MassMoca in this picture?! I took my students there not long ago and they loooved that paper tree sculpture :)

Here's my two cents as a skinny vegan(ish) girl hiker…hopefully I'm not repeating others too much.

Though Bryce may balk at a double wall tent, they are really the best way to start. I used to find clamminess and condensation even more difficult to deal with than bugs. You can often find a Big Agnes 2-person on sale for a reasonable price; comfortable and not *that* weighty. I had to work my way up to a single wall shelter, and may never work my way up to floorless–I just don't think they're the best option for wet, buggy New England.

Make sure you get a warm sleeping bag. Even a 20degree bag in NH in September might well be chilly for you, especially if you're at any sort of elevation or get nasty weather. I really prefer a 15-degree bag anytime after Labor Day, because I sleep cold. The quilt might be the way to go, so you can share body heat. September is definitely *the* month to go. Cool, dry, and you shouldn't need bug spray. Anyone who recommends bug dope has it backwards–it's a pain to wash off and will leave you feeling smelly and greasy and chemical-y the whole trip. Ditch it, or save it as a very last resort. Bring long sleeves and a headnet if the flies really bother you.

Probably the girliest thing about me is that I like to hike in dresses and skirts (fairly loosefitting synthetic or wool ones). It's a good solution to the pee-problem — A loose knee-length skirt makes it easy to squat down without revealing yourself. Also offers great range of motion, and it's easy to put long johns on underneath if it's chilly, or take them off as the day warms up.

Last but not least, put yourself in charge of food! Having foods that you enjoy can really make a trip. Typical backpacking food (energy bars and instant mashed potatoes etc) can be hard to stomach if it's not what you're used to. Especially if you're just out for the weekend, go for simple and calorie-dense: peanut butter, dark chocolate, dairy-free hot cocoa mix, soy jerkey, your favorite granola, homemade cookies, whatever. And pay attention to your protein, yada yada. Also, maybe find an awesome vegan-friendly ethnic restaurant or a co-op with a good hot food bar near your destination, so you can stop on the way home and gorge yourself on delicious fresh food (that's my MO on day trips as well as longer trips ;) Having a set of clean comfortable non-hiker clothes along with some moist towlettes waiting in the car is a nice treat, too. Then you won't feel like such a dirtbag when you stop at rest areas and gas stations.

PS–thanks for a delightful thread! I'm reminded once again what a minority the solo female hiker really is…

for sleeping bags make sure you look for the "comfort level" (womens comfort) … not the "lower limit comfort" (mens comfort)

most ratings on the bags, even womens ones are for the mens comfort level … if this is the case on the bag you buy youll need to get one that is ~10F warmer than yr expected temps

for example the helium is basically a 28F bag for women and 16F for men

I'm kind of overwhelmed by all the awesome responses. Thank you all.

Elena, the clothing suggestions are super helpful. Bryce keeps sending me links for some unfortunate looking clothes…and I just can't. Just b/c we're hiking/camping doesn't mean one needs to look homely :) I will look at your suggestions. I also think I may go to REI this weekend just to try some things on–see how they fit before I order.

Piper, I love the make-up story, as I am the girly girl who wears eye makeup on a hike…there will be an eyeliner in my pack and while I'm not an apply throughout the day type of girl (except for my Hurraw vegan lip balm–which I love) looking nice makes me feel good wherever I'm going to be–city or country.

Kate, That is MassMoCA! One of our first trips together was a weekend to MassMoCA (we stayed at Porches Inn–my choice–for a night) and then we car camped on Savoy Mtn and did a hike the next day. Thanks for the skirt tip too…I wouldn't have thought of that. I will definitely be in charge of food. Bryce usually makes "meat rocks" before he hikes (dehydrated meat crumbles–not vegan, not appetizing) so I will definitely be choosing my own food.

Thanks again everyone: the sleeping bag suggestions, tent suggestions, bug net suggestions, words of support, all really lovely and helpful! I can promise Bryce will definitely post the results of our trip come September…posting here is pretty much his favorite thing to do! haha.

Kathleen

Whoa- I have to disagree with Mike Clelland, too. (Sorry, Mike!) I've been dealing with this problem for years and, trust me, the solution is NOT to give my wife the sink-or-swim treatment. On one car camping jaunt six years ago we brought sleeping bags just one iota too light and I'm STILL hearing about it. I also spent half of the night pacing around with NO sleeping bag so that she could have both. So, not to make sweeping generalizations but I agree with one previous poster: for most non-hiking women the primary point is to promise them that they won't be cold or wet or covered in fire ants or whatever. In a word- promise a minimum level of comfort. Accept that this will mean a heavier pack and a hiking route that may not be as remote as you would like. Then work into anything more extreme slowly. I gotta say, though, that the potty obsession may indicate deeper issues… :) Heck, even my wife uses her Freshette, now.

I mean- think about it Mike. Even if they have never camped before if a woman is in one of your classes she is BY DEFINITION at least pretty darned enthusiastic about trying it. After all, you're teaching pretty extreme stuff by mainstream standards. That may not be Kathleen's situation.

My big source of optimism regarding my wife is that at the advanced age of 4 and a half my daughter seems to be obsessed with hiking and the outdoors. ("Hiking" meaning day hikes, so far.) Eventually if all goes well this will suck my wife in, too.

My lady, is about as girly as it gets. She manages a very popular women's clothing boutique(minxasheville.com), of which she and the other girls that work there are pretty much the full time envy of the city's fashionable population. If you met her, the idea that she was now an avid (obsessed) hiker, wouldn't cross your mind, even though we now live in one of the most outdoor oriented areas of the country.

She had no less than three major "breakdowns" during our first trip out, which was by all intents, a car-camping situation, which featured heavy packs, tons of food and booze, and a very short <2mi hike to the site.

In the end though, all I really had to do, was hold her hand (literally) while she peed in the woods for the first time. I hope you're prepared for that part Bryce.. ;)

Kathleen; You'll hate it during your first overnighter, and you'll swear "this isn't who you are", and you'll probably be angry at Bryce for trying to make you be someone you aren't, no matter how much you love him. Afterwards, you'll realize you loved the experience, begrudgingly, and that it was empowering ultimately. After a few trips, you'll only have the lip balm, because Bryce will have made you realize how superfluous carrying even the lightest mirror is, and a long hike will drive the idea of excess weight home. The experience of forgetting the rituals, will be liberating, occasionally, even if you covet them normally.

Ultimately, it'll be your refuge from the tedium of "being yourself", that you didn't realize even existed. Your escape. You may end up being more enthusiastic than him.

Enjoy. ;)

"I also spent half of the night pacing around with NO sleeping bag so that she could have both."

I take it she doesn't like to cuddle with you.

I'm surprised no other guys have writen this but I will. If my girl friend came in here and wanted tips for backpacking/camping, I'd be over-joyed! Of course I'm married and so I guess that'll never happen because my wife has been handicapped by a stroke for the last ten years. But, every time I go out I wish that my wife could have come along. A very big part of being in Creation for me is sharing the experience with others. You can take pictures, but you can't bring it back with you. -Kathleen, I hope you will embark on what will be the hobby/sport of a lifetime. And Bryce, you do what ever it takes to help her have that good time. It'll be worth it in the dividends you receive over the years. You, my friend, have found a winner.

-BTW Kathleen, Bryce can help you lighten up your purse! (from your original post)

I realize that many may find it ridiculous that I am concerned about how I look on a backpacking trip, but it's just not in me to say "oh to hell with it!" and dress like a boy. So today Bryce and I went to REI so I could try on some hiking clothes. His mission was function and NOT cotton (about 90% of my current wardrobe is cotton.) My mission was clothes that fit me well, are comfortable and flattering.

I tried on a few different pairs of pants:

First was the REI Women's Renedevous Convertible Pants, $64.50: http://bit.ly/oKgoAM
I found these to be too high-waisted. I'm used to wearing a lower rise. The pockets in the back are also kind of hidden, so the back is just kind of blah…and I'm just gonna say it, I have a small tush and they made my butt look big. Yes, only Bryce is looking at my tush on the trail as I smoke 'em…haha. But they just weren't comfortable. They were also kind of itchy inside…something about the finish of the fabric–so these were an instant "no."

Second was The North Face Women's Horizon Tempest Roll-Up Pants, $55: http://bit.ly/q2lcWq
I really liked these pants. They have a lower rise, fitted through the hips, flattering, I nearly bought these, and if I get into hiking with Bryce I can definitely see myself buying a few pairs in the future.

The best of the group though was the prAna Women's Cadence Cargo Pants, reg $75, on sale for $50: http://bit.ly/mUqZnq
I put these on and it was just instant comfort. They are so soft, they feel like PJ's. They have a low rise, fitted through the hips, very flattering on me. If they'd had more than just one color (Iron) I'd have bought a few pairs. I can see myself wearing these around town just running errands. LOVE 'EM!

I also tried a few tops:
First was the Nike Women's Miler T-Shirt made made from their Dri-Fit fabric, $24-35: http://bit.ly/nuLEGW
This shirt was ok, comfortable enough. I'm not a huge fan of crewnecks…I just don't like things tight around my neck. This was a contender though.

Second was the Patagonia Women's Capilene 2 Long-Sleeve Crew Top, $45: http://bit.ly/nKJnfV
This shirt was itchy. Bryce thought I was nuts, but I tried this top in with the REI pants and it was just overall an itchy outfit. NO GOOD.

Last was the REI, Women's Windom Peak Shirt, $39.50: http://bit.ly/ofZv2a
I really liked this top. It was light and comfortable and the neck was cut a bit wider so I felt like I could breathe. Bryce pointed out that the top having three buttons at the neck was "extra weight" and I bought it in two colors:)

For shoes I have a pair of low-profile New Balance WT101 trail runners (I don't like clunky shoes, and I've done day hikes with these before and been comfortable.)

Just for Bryce: my pants weigh 322g, the top weighs 180g. My clothes are probably heavier than his whole pack, but whatevs ;)

Next I have to figure out what sort of vegan cuisine we'll be dining on…

My daughter is also squimish about sleeping on the ground. She actually picked hanging to ground sleep. If ground crawlers are a problem for you maybe a jungle hammock like a Clark would help. Its three to four pounds but unless you are hiking in the tundra you should be able to stay of the ground. Add your clothings and you should be at 8… for winter 5 for summer. Your BF should have all the cooking stuff minus your mess kit which will add 2# max . Add a solar shower for your comfort makes 13. A down bag will get you to 15. Pretty much all you'll need plus a toothbrush, DR. Bonners, and feminine supplies which will add a pound max.

As for backcountry sanitation I recommend " How to *$h1t* in the Woods." ( Won't let me post the true title but you get the picture) There is a chapter on feminine sanitation which I had my daughter read. While she proceded to regale me on one of our trips I'll spare these folk the story. And just suggest the book.

Give it a shot. If your BF knows the area well he can pick out an impressive vista well worth the hike and you will be hooked. Enjoy the experience you can't get it any other way.

@Warren, touching post there. Kathleen did not know me prior to my MC accident, but I have faith she'll be there when I need her with my ailments, and vice versa.

Tonight I received my GG Murmur pack. The Murmur wasn't really on my radar as a SUL pack as the little devil in my head has been saying "Cuben! Zpacks! Cuben! Zpacks!" for the past few months. When I looked at the price difference, I was ok with taking on a tiny bit more weight as either pack is vastly lighter than my bigger GG Mariposa.

Anyway, the other reason I took a chance on it, was because it might serve as an overnight pack for Kathleen. If I can lower her weight, and increase her pack's volume while keeping her comfy, why not?

She currently uses an EMS Fen Women's day pack:
http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3790621

It weighed in at 26.45oz (more than my Mariposa! :o)

The GG Murmur weighed in at 7.62oz w/ no foam pads, but I left the hip belt on. Dead on quoted weight. (My original GG mariposa with no foam, no CF stays, but hip belt weighs 16.5oz)

Well…the weights were awesome as expected, but the fit was a little off as expected. This is a pack that does not state it is sized for a women specifically and has less adjustment that other packs to minimize weight. Here are pics of the pack on Kathleen w/ just my 15 degree Marmot Helium bag stuffed in for some shape.

The pack looks to move off her back near the top, but that's prob because there is no sleeping pad in the pocket to give the pack some shape. It's basically a cylinder in these pics. The pack fits her volume wise:

Now here is problem #1, Kathleen has bigger pecs than me and the non-adjustable sternum strap runs uncomfortably under them. This can be corrected if we dedicate this pack to her, I can rip out the strap and reattach higher:

Problem #2 (which I worried about) are the wide straps of the GG Murmur. I have wider shoulders, so no big deal, but Kathleen does not. The inner seams of the straps tickle her neck a bit. This can also be corrected by ripping the seams and trimming the straps a bit.

Problem #3 is the volume of the pack. She will have a synthetic bag that does not compress as much as I'm used to with down. Granted when she hikes I'll be with her carrying a bigger portion of the load, but size will be a question. Gotta get some more of her gear together to see.

I think I'll keep it one way or another. I respect Zpacks, don't have personal experience with the Blast durability, but Joe says it has a finite lifetime with the CF. I am used to the silnylon Mariposa and how durable it's been for me, so we'll see how the Murmur does. The Murmur just looks like its little brother and the price is great. Just have to see if we can make it work for Kathleen.

Hun, I love my EMS pack. Plus it's cute and orange. I think you should just carry our stuff and I'll take my clothes, a cliff bar, my roll of cottonelle and bug spray in my EMS pack. Good plan. love ya! :)

….your smart but sometimes forgetful BF forgets the tent and we have to sleep under the stars with all the horrible bugs and things that make noises in the night? ;)

Even though you don't dig REI why not try every possible pack in the store with her carrying some ballpark WEIGHT. Doing it the way you are doing it seems hit and miss. She did great there finding clothes so why try to guess what will work and heavily modify gear? You need to focus on COMFORT to make this work. That's why I have a Mountainsmith Ghost and my daughter has a Golite Odyssey. They are very comfortable and the volumes work. Why does she get a synthetic bag? Does not compute unless you are economizing or expect wet disaster?The other variable is your accident and damage. Ultimately you need to be comfortable too , and you are assuming the less weight the better. But in truth you may need just less pain. That may mean a heavier pack or a frame, a harder mattress, Reparagen, etc. For both of you Weight is not the Apriori.

She's going to need some type of frame for much over 10 pounds. Don't waste your time buying and then selling or returning frameless packs.

John, I agree! That's a great idea.

Synthetic bag b/c I'm vegan and I won't buy down.

Synthetic quilt perhaps?

Bryce, I agree with John and Chris on forgetting about a frameless pack. Even with a 10-lb. daypack, I need a frame that will transfer all the weight to my hips! For me, any pack without load lifters (to take the pressure off my shoulders) is a non-starter.

Most women, even tough old bats like me (I've been doing this for 69 years now), as a rule need more structure to a pack, more insulating clothing, about ten degrees (F) more insulation in the sleeping bag and more cushioning in the sleeping pad than do most men. If it weighs a little more, so be it.

Look for a pack like her daypack but with more structure definitely with enough capacity for that synthetic bag. The important thing is that it be comfortable for her, rather than lightweight. It will probably have to be a woman-specific pack.

Kathleen, there are a few suppliers of down that use only down that is shed naturally by the goose rather than down taken from a slaughtered goose. Would this be acceptable to you? You probably don't want to invest in such a sleeping bag, though, unless you end up really getting "hooked" by backpacking.

Syn quilt would be possibility at some point, but prob not at first? (Kathleen?) I know I started with bags b4 quilts and there was a certain sort of security there. *shrugs* But I'm more than happy to let her try the Ray-Way quilt I made with my mom way back. :) Downside is we live in a townhouse with no backyard for her to try it for a night. We'd have to try it on the trail.

My first and only pack is my GG Mariposa. A good sized, but pretty light pack even by today's standards. I never used the CF stays that came with the pack. I didn't think they did anything for me so I ditched them. So I have no experience with a framed pack magically lifting weight off my back. Every time I have gone lighter in base weight, the more comfy I have hiked (I am not saying going w/ lighter and possibly less gear makes one more comfy ~in~ camp though). So I guess my goal is to keep her light and that will lead to comfy carry weight (possibly). But I admit that is not how it works for everyone, I just haven't experienced it myself and at 118lbs and slim build plus syn bag, plus other creature comforts she would like, I don't want her carry weight to creep up too much with a heavier pack if possible.

So we can go to REI with a pack full of stuff to dump into their packs and see how it works for her, but I'd love to mod a Murmur for her….let my mother and I sprinkle a little lovin' on it. :)

I can't believe you posted my weight in an online forum. You are in danger of going by yourself. I can just go get a pedicure and go to banana republic…or I could "rough it" and visit the gap. :P

What is the lightest, framed, women's pack to research? I don't see many options from the usual manufacturers I look for uber light stuff from.

Who makes gear with specific down like that? I only ever see fill power for down quoted. Would it be a custom from Feathered Friends? (I know they do custom stuff, but don't remember anything on their website about how their down is collected).

Thanks!

Thanks Mary. I think we'll go try some REI packs to see how they differ from Bryce's frameless packs.

I think I just can't do the down though. I know synthetic is heavier, but it not coming from an animal plus the fact that it frosts Bryce a bit that it's heavier is a good enough sell for me ;)

Most women can't carry weight on their shoulders like men can.

If she can carry 11 lbs with 8 on her hips versus saving a pound on the pack and carrying all 10 on her shoulders, I can pretty much guarantee she'd rather have the 11.

Hardly anyone makes female-specific packs in our arena, unfortunately. The Ohm worked for my wife, as does the HMG Windrider, but she's not as small as Kathleen.

The female version of the Jam might work, even though it's mostly frameless.

Women's GoLite Jam Pack: http://www.rei.com/product/793697/golite-jam-pack-womens
Need to find it in a better color though… ;)