Backpacking for the girly girl

Kathleen,
You've recieved a wide variety of advice already, so I won't try to duplicate any of it. I have only one thing to suggest, and it is: KEEP TRYING.

You're nervous and that's fine. Nothing wrong with being nervous. But KEEP TRYING. Do the things you're scared of, no matter how many attempts it takes. As it's said, don't knock it till you've tried it. How you try it is up to you. Ultimately, you may end up not liking it, but regardless of the outcome you will have the satisfaction of knowing you gave your best effort to experience what Bryce wants to share with you. And it IS pretty awesome once you get past the bugs. |=)

There are 76 post and I cant bring myself to read all of them, so if this advice has been offered before just consider it a second.

I have been married for 18 years. In that time I have learned one very valuable lesson. My wife and I have many things in common, but on those that we dont, there is not need nor sense in trying to make them "in common".

As an example, I am one of those guys who loves anything mechanical. Give me a big truck, a fast car, a cool motorcycle, or a dirty 4 wheeler and I am in heaven. As my group of riding buddies got larger and I saw that often their wives would go, I started to think how cool it would be if my wife rode. No I didnt want the typical harley wife who was 40 lbs overweight and sat behind their similar husband on the big hog, I wanted a speedy wife on her own machine.

so I hatched my plan to her, and she reluctantly accepted in an attempt to "please" me.

Off I went, and bought her a bike, and all the toys that went with it. I sent her to riding school, got her license and was ready to ride.

We went on our first ride and it was a disaster…she was so uncomfortable on the bike that she simply would not do the most basic of things (such as stop at a 4 way stop and then take her turn). She was truly petrified of the bike and hurting herself. I tried patience, I tried time, I tried having her ride with other people thinking it might be pressure from me, none of it worked. She got a little better, but never to the point she nor I felt safe or comfortable with her riding.

We finally agreed we had made a very expensive mistake and I sold her bike (and bought upgrades for mine YEAH!!!!!!).

Long story short, dont try and be someone you are not just to please anyone…as you said, you are 31 and doubt there is any major change in your attitudes in the near future.

I say marry him, send him off hiking, and spend half his annual salary in the mall while he is gone!!!!!!!!!

In case you dont know am just being funny (at least I think I am funny) on the last part, but the fist part of my post is dead on.

Oh, and if he really lives on this board 24 / 7…support the board, buy a membership for him.

Kathleen and Bryce: Got a great kick out of reading this entire thread!

Kathleen: can totally relate!!

I had never camped a day in my life until age 41 when my son at age 7 said he wanted to join Cub Scouts so he could go camping and he wanted ME to take him camping … that was a great first camping experience as the trip was at a state park that had REAL BATHROOMS since I had never peed outside!! I even made us take a sponge bath before we went to bed at night. … fast forward 8 years … he and I have just returned from a Philmont trek! A very far cry from that first camping at the state park :-)

So … point is, take it slowly and over time you will find that the things that initially bothered you become less and less important and you will learn to appreciate the great outdoors for the peacefulness and beauty of it. Not to mention enjoying it with Bryce!

Finally .. peeing outside: Get yourself a p-style (www.thepstyle.com) or other similar device. It is very freaky to use initially and most definitely practice at home, but hope you find that once getting over the weirdness of it, it is actually quite practical and convenient!

"We're both dying in our respective corners here where I loath the day I carry more weight, and she would rather die than sleep on the ground w/ no floor."

You guys seem to have a fun relationship (at least you're smiling in the pictures) but this sounds like trouble. I travel pretty light in general, but you know what my pack weighs when I take the kids? I have no idea. I don't weigh the Dora dolls, the cheap polyester princess sleeping bags, the extra dresses and underwear, the comfort foods, and whatever else they want.

I am happy enough that they want to come with me, and my only priority is that they enjoy the experience enough to want to do it again.

This was one of my favorite quotes from Roman Dial—-

"However there's one class of heavy trip I did repeatedly for a decade: family trips. One example, with my six year old son and a North Face VE 24, back in 1993. We walked 60 miles across Umnak, an Aleutian Island, just the two of us. I carried a big pack because he carried nothing. Sometimes I carried him, too, when he said "Dad, my feet hurt." but he always hopped down when I said, "Son, my back hurts."

I learned a lot on that trip! The best thing I learned was that he and I liked doing long wilderness trips together and that I liked being there with him, and liked looking after him. I found going heavy was Ok cause he needed more frequent rests too. I found stopping a lot and sharing the landscape and seascape views were good. I liked having all the stuff for him: big tent, two rain jackets for him, lots of fuel and a stove, a gun for protection against wild bulls, a camera to capture the trip, a book for us to read, plenty of snacks to keep him happy, a glass ball from a Bering Sea beach as a memento."

My advice, don't spend a lot of money on a new tent, or anything else for that matter. This is a one time offer from Kathleen, and if you stick to your UL guns, chances are good that's all it will be. So borrow a tent or bring the coleman (gasp). Bring a bottle of wine, a nice dinner, and whatever else might enhance the intimacy of the trip. Don't weigh anything. You'll have your whole life to indulge your UL fantasies, but only one chance to have a partner to do it with.

Good luck.

PS. If it's really important to Kathleen, Doug Ide might clue you in on an UL porta-potty made with a cuben seat and carbon fiber legs. Ask to borrow his movie projector at the same time.

+1. A great post.

Well, except for the Doug Ide part…….;-)

Kathleen, I just want to say that you rock and that you definitely get the "Good Attitude Award" for being willing to give it a go. Even if you try it and decide it's not for you, that's cool – you never know until you try!

Ike for the WIN.

Hell of a post, great Roman Dial quote.

Thanks.

I haven't read this whole thread, but I recently bought this tent and is great for when the girlfriend wants to accompany. It's heavy, just under 4 pounds, but it fits us and the dog.

http://www.rei.com/product/810115/rei-passage-2-tent

So last night Kathleen and I sat down and agreed that we'd like to try a relatively easy hike to a somewhat private spot and use a tent of sorts.

This gives us a little privacy on the trip to take it all in vs. sharing bunk beds in an AMC cabin with others perhaps (she does not see a real benefit to a privy/outhouse vs. going outside.).

We are now researching some non-cotton clothing for her as well as a synthetic sleeping bag (she is vegan) vs. a two-person down quilt (that I just ~might~ order on my own). Most likely that decision will not be made until after our trip.

Since she reacts very badly to bug bites (swelling), our trip will be in the fall when bugs die down. But it will be colder then so most likely we'll take my Marmot Atom (40F down bag) and my JRB Sierra Stealth quilt (40F) for me, and give her my Marmot Helium (15F) sleeping bag. Tonight I showed her the difference between quilts and sleeping bags. I think she'd be more comfy alone in a sleeping bag, but a two-person quilt might work (weight savings!):

In response to those that say "do whatever it takes to make her happy, you only have one shot," well as much as I'd like to carry an 8 lb tent for her comfort, it's not that easy. I was in a major motorcycle accident in 2007 that crippled the right side of my body. I'm lucky to have my right leg and right arm at this point. As a result of many reconstructive surgeries, I cannot physically carry a ton of weight. Sure, within reason I can go backpacking and carry a load, but some day I'll need a knee replacement (I'm 32 yrs old) and keeping my pack/body weight down is a big thing to preserve what I have. My knee and arm hurts every day of my life (motorcycles were not worth it folks), but I absolutely am focused on making Kathleen as comfy as I possibly can. The other part of going light is just pure fun when I can't be on the trail. The engineer/tinkerer in me just enjoys reading about, and coming up with innovative ways to go lighter.

Bryce, Kifaru makes a 2 lb synthetic insulated sleeping bag rated for 20F. Interesting that a Vegan can't go with down, as I thought geese were not killed in acquiring the down. So they are? Anyway, about the Kifaru Slick bag.

https://kifaru.net/regulator.html
Look for standard size slick, +20 F

Amazing, eh? They use Climashield. Here is their description:

Shell Material
The shell material used in all of the bags is a proprietary fabric called RhinoSkin™, which is an ultralightweight ripstop fabric that is only .9oz sq yd, and comes with a DWR coating. It is a little lighter than Pertex Quantum, yet was proven 2-3 times more puncture proof and tear resistant in testing. The bags will be Foliage Green on the outside, and Camo Green 483 on the inside.

Insulation
The insulation used in the bags is Climashield Combat Insulation, which is the Berry Ammendment Compliant version of their XP insulation. It is a continuous filament fiber synthetic insulation that has all the properties we were looking for in an insulation. It is very compressable, very thermally efficient, and does not need to be quilted, laminated, or glued to the shell fabric. It also has excellent drape, allowing it to conform naturally around the body

If you get their compressing sack, it's another 2.5 oz.

I am not an authority, but I believe down is both harvested from live and slaightered birds as a byproduct (not for the faint of heart: http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/downandfeathers.htm)

I did not come across that Kifaru bag in my search for sym bags, good research for the lightest option I've seen. But sadly it looks like their 20F bags is meant to fit individuals up to 6ft 1in and individuals with larger girth….Kathleen is thin and 5ft 6in, oh well.

Bryce, another option is Tim Marshall (a BPLer)'s Synthetic ultralight quilt bags (Climashield and Cuben Fiber):

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/epiphanyapex.htm

All syn quilts/bags would be a possibility, but I'd have to learn more about "the vapor barrier effect" he tags his temperature rating with. I know I'm personally not comfy with VBL stuff, not sure if Kathleen would be for a first quilt/bag as well. It would be significantly lighter than other syn bags out there w/ same temp range, but very expensive, and it's 80-90% of the cost of a JRB 2-person quilt. We'll see how we do with our current gear for this first trip and go from there.

Bryce: You're actually spot on as to why we don't use down filling! I'm a vegan and looking for a synthetic sleeping bag also, I've come across a Mountain Hardwear UltraLamina 32 that weighs 1 lb 15 oz. Not ideal but it's an option.

I looked at that bag, but find it weird that their regular women's bag inside length is 6 feet tall. Last time I checked Kathleen wasn't short, I don't understand why their regular bag is so freaking tall.

BUT…what is weird is that the length seemed to be only slightly too long on my JRB quilt and Marmot Atom for her, and those are sized for people who are 5-10 and 6-0 respectively…I don't get it. Even so, there is too much girth in these two men's items for her, too much space to heat up.

Another option I keep reading about is The North Face Cat's Meow:
http://www.thenorthface.com/catalog/sc-gear/womens-cats-meow_2.html

It has name brand insulation, but the regular length is speced for someone 5-6. That is Kathleen's height, but she'd be maxing out. I don't trust that she'd fit length wise especially after she puts on some booties or a thick hat.

I realize I've done a bad thing. As really great and welcoming and helpful as everyone has been on BPL, and as much as I've learned in a few short days, I've given Bryce yet another reason (like he needed one) to spend time on this website. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

It's 1:34 a.m. Hun, come to bed.

BRT dear, just have ~one~ more review to read. ;)

The P-Mate has increased my joy of hiking/backpacking/camping/road tripping SO MUCH.

If it’s warm enough, just unzip your sleeping bag (I can’t connect to geargrams right now, so I don’t know if you have a bag or quilt) and cuddle!

Finally, if you need a tent, just rent the quarterdome 2 from REI for a weekend.

The bag length is pretty awful but it just seems like there aren't that many great synthetic options.

I saw the Cat's Meow and nixed it my list since it says "silken lining." The hunt continues!

"seems like there aren't that many great synthetic options."

Mountain Laurel Designs has a sweet synthetic quilt and I'm sure Ron would be happy to customize it for your needs. I use it for most of my camping now :)

Bryce,
I have a cuben/climashield quilt, got it off Gear Swap and rigged it as an UQ for my hammock. As an UQ, it's great. When I tried using it as a TQ, though, it was definitely sweaty. It might have just been too warm for that particular quilt. I would get some more feedback about the enLightened synthetic quilts to see if one would work for Kathleen. They definitely meet your warm enough/light enough criteria.

Howdy,

+1 to Ike’s great post. I like to go light as much as possible on my trips but occasionally a certain location or trail/hiking partner or group calls for a different approach. A solid double-wall tent is only going to add a couple of pounds (gasp!) at most, so just plan the trip accordingly. As others have said, find a cool trail that is perhaps a bit shorter than your usual but with killer scenery. That way the extra weight doesn’t really matter as much. Occasionally I’ll take trips with folks that prefer a heavier style and it can be fun to do a different kind of trip. A lot of times these trips turn into base camp, then explore type trips. This can be a refreshing change of pace to my usual lightweight, cover as much ground as possible type trips. That would be my recommendation – make a whole new kind of wilderness experience out of it that appeals to both of you. This is not to say that Kathleen can’t handle an all day, high-mileage type of trip – but if it comes to taking some heavier/more luxurious gear, just modify the itinerary to accommodate. Either way, I hope you all get out and have an awesome time.

I don’t how much your Coleman weighs in at, but you may want to check out this deal for a Kelty Grand Mesa 2. Yeah, it’s heavy, but it’s a nice double-wall tent and, at $70, an absolute steal. My brother uses one regularly on his trips and I’ve heard nothing but good reviews. Could be a good option. All the best to both of you.

Thanks for the response Nate, I realize this thread has quickly become many pages (which is a good thing, a lot of advice here), but please read the bottom of this post:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=50465&skip_to_post=428312#428312

A heavy Coleman tent isn't going to happen. Yes accommodations will be made to best suit both of us after a trail run or two with borrowed gear, but a double wall is hard to swallow. thx.

You guys are great! As one whose SO will not even car camp (her idea of roughing it is a hotel without room service) I think it is great that you are making an effort to join Bryce.

As far as the tent goes, I don' t think it's necessary to take a double wall tent at all. The TT Double Rainbow and SMD Lunar Duo would both be great choices. You are small enough that it would be easy to avoid touching the end wall or top fabric if it had any condensation. They both have full mesh sidewalls, so no worry about condensation there, or bugs. You might have to wipe the roof once or twice during the night, but Bryce, being a ULer, is probably well versed in dealing with that. If the weather is nice you can have the vestibules tied up for great views. They both have full bathtub floors, and you get shelter that meets your criteria for less than 1.5 pounds per person.

No matter which way you decide to go, have fun!

Here are some ideas for clothing that look good and perform well:

Montbell Thermawrap UL parka (runs small, an awesome lightweight insulation layer)

Icebreaker bodyfit zips (needs at least one wash before 1st wear, look at sierra trading post for good deals. sheep stay alive. you sweat = no stink! but smells like a sheep when wet)
AND/OR
Nike Dri-fit half zip (extremely soft, light, comfy, comes in various colors and flattering fit)

Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch Zip T
OR
Marmot Power Stretch Half Zip (polartec is an excellent lightweight insulator for added warmth to your current setup)

As far as pants, it's hard to advise since the fit is important – those have to be tried on. Softshells from Patagonia, Columbia, Rei etc.

Patagonia Capeline tights are always with me for added warmth and dry sleeping.

Smartwool socks are a must. the above mentioned site has good deals on it.

Also, the UL mosquito net that is sold in BPL store is great – you may want to get it, just in case!