Backpacking for the girly girl

Bryce, I forgot about your hiking poles, I'm not sure they're suitable for dual use as tent poles for any tarptent using hiking poles. Therefore you might want to look at http://www.eastonmountainproducts.com/tent/kilo-tent (2.2 lb two person pole tent)
or the Double Rainbow by Tarptent (it weighs more though).

I may be wrong, you'll need to know the lengths you can modify your hiking poles to and what the tent setups require. I have the adjustable Black Diamond hiking poles, which weigh more, but they do serve dual use as tent poles.

Completely agree with the above suggestion that you and/or your bf pick a place with a nice lodge that boasts immaculately clean and quiet rooms, fine dining, a pool and jacuzzi… that's close to some easy-to-moderate trails with awesome views. Go with an open mind, and know that even if the trail hike should become hot and sweaty, etc. — you will feel a lot better just knowing that civilization will be yours again at the end of the day. Who knows, you might actually fall in love with the outdoors — and decide to do more…

So true Linda. The reason to backpack is to be where no one else is and to see some amazing scenery. Day hikes will give you a taste. Once you've fallen in love with the wilderness scenery, it's an easier leap to enjoy backpacking. For first-timers it's important to treat backpacking as a means to an end, rather than the dangling carrot, itself. I don't think I'd ever have taken up backpacking if it wasn't for the views and splendor that I experienced during day hikes. I only started enjoying backpacking once I had felt like day hiking wasn't capable of getting me to the places I wanted to be. As a first-timer, the draw of backpacking just isn't as strong without having a solid foundation of enjoying nature and the wilderness. So maybe you should work towards that, first?

Kathleen,

I climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro this past February. Two of the women in the group were on the older side (one was a grandmother) who hadn’t camped before, and hadn’t even hiked above sea level before. The older of the two struggled a *lot* on the trip up; our mountain guide had a porter carry her pack from 11,000 feet up. She made it to Kibo Hut Camp at 15,500 feet. The younger one (still non-trivially older than you and I) made it to Gilman’s Point, at 18,600 feet.

It just goes to show what you can do if you want to; they both went far beyond their comfort zone, far beyond what they though that they were physically capable of doing, and glad that they did. And proud.

You don’t have to be anywhere near as ambitious as all that to have a good time in the wilderness. Backpacking might seem intimidating at first, but there is a reward:
like this if you’re willing to give it a shot. And sharing that with someone close to you…

My wife was a little older than you the first time she peed outside- using a freshette. She was pregnant, and we were kayaking in Puget Sound and had stopped on a remote beach. She admits that it went better than she had anticipated. Now she absolutely loves that widget. :)

That was almost a decade ago and she still doesn't really camp with me. She has car-camped a few times, and is always willing to day-hike, but she just doesn't have a regular over-nighter in her. So, if you are a regular car-camper you're already ahead of my wife and I! Thus, unlike some others I recognize that the only thing keeping you from becoming a full-bore backcountry hiker is your squeamishness about toilets (or the lack of them). That's it, really, from what you are describing. Asking for a tent with a floor is NOT unreasonable and your beau can compromise on it.

That said, I AM working on my wife, and you might want to try something similar to what I have planned. I am going to take her to Grand Canyon next summer so that we can hike to a reserved room at Phantom Ranch for the night, then another night at Cottonwood Campground, and out the North Rim to another nice room in the lodge before catching the shuttle back to South Rim. That way there is really only one night spent on the ground, and there is even a potty at both Phantom Ranch and Cottonwood.

For a tent, I have an MLD Supermid with the inner net/floor. Since it is modular I can use it in several different configurations. With the inner it is a bugproof double-walled tent with a bathtub floor, but I can also use it as a floorless tent with larger groups of fellow fanatics. That's my "big" tent, and it is truly a palace for two people, but if you don't need all of that room the Duomid is another great option. (I've become a pyramid tent fanatic.)

There are some really good suggestions here: Hut hiking at Goose Pond or in the White Mtns.; 13 Falls Campsite; etc.

I have induced SOs to go backpacking with me for more than 40 years. Two of my lady friends have even gone winter hiking in sub-zero temps with me. My secret of success in getting them to go and even do it again and again, is an iron-clad guarantee: You will be comfortable or your money back! At least a first, their comfort must be my priority or they won't do it again.

My own personal preference is for the alpine zone, steep climbs to often cold and windy places. But for the sake of "us" and sharing my wilderness joy with my friend, I not only compromise, I willingly consider the other's needs as equal to my own. I would much rather have the intimate companionship than bag another peak. Make her happy!

I bought a BA Fly Creek 2, which at 2.6 lbs works for me solo and the two of us can squeeze in when my current lady friend(62 years old!–I'm older) joins in.

And one more suggestion in the White Mtns., since you are in New England: Leave the tent home and stay in a shelter, Guyot and Garfield are both stunningly beautiful and a nice clean wood floor to put your pad on.

Lots of nice suggestions on gear that would work and keep you comfortable. If you are willing to give this a try, do it. Ignore the pleads to " do your boyfriend a favor….". If after an honest try it's not for you, stick to day hikes and other suggestions, or not even that. I agree that the fact that backpacking takes you out to places that you would not see otherwise….is a great motivation. You both seem willing to give this a shot, so go for it.

Now this not directed at you…. But I am surprised to hear there are lots of women out there who have never had to pee outside. My life, and my girly girl daughter's would have been quite limited if we weren't able to just take care of business outdoors.

"Unfortunately, I don't believe at 31 I'm going to experience any sort of drastic attitude adjustment…"

I think this is an important starting point for this discussion. 31-years-old is young, and I'd hate to see anybody at any age be closed off to new experiences (as long as it's legal and relatively safe). If you view yourself as a "girly girl" who scared of the outdoors, that's exactly what you'll end up being. It's important to become more open to new experiences as you get older, not less open.

For example, at 31-years-old I had never done 5 minutes of yoga. Now, at 32, I'm doing back-bends and did 3 hours of advanced yoga classes yesterday with an instructor who uses the Sanskrit words for each pose. A year ago, I never would have imagined that I would enjoy yoga. Now I love it, but that never would have happened without me being open to the possibility.

Back to Backpacking – I think Bryce has laid out a good plan, taking small steps with day hikes and easy over-night trips. Not every trip has to be a big deal. I love driving out to the mountains after work, hiking in a couple EASY miles and setting up camp. Just enjoy the alone time together outside of your normal comfort zone.

Finally, YOU should take on a specific role for your trips together. When my GF and I backpack together, I'm in charge of setting up our shelter – whether it's the tarp, tent, etc., while she is in charge of food – both meal planning and prep. We still help each other, but if you have a task to focus on during the trip, you'll feel like you're in control and not just along for the ride.

Best of luck!

Agree with Tommy D about change at 31. Glad he said something, so I didn't have to flounder around trying.

My insights to Kathleen:
===================

Please know, I teach ultralight camping to beginners, and I've had amazing success.

A lot of people in these forums will advocate doing a measured, slow, step-by-step approach when trying ultra-light techniques. To me, this is a little bit mamby-pamby.

I feel strongly that you should just go for it! Take the plunge and be bold the very first time out!

I've taken people who have NEVER EVER camped out for two-weeks in the mountains of wyoming, and they have a base weight of UNDER 10 POUNDS! It was easy, they never complained or hesitated.

The hardest people to teach (or encourage) are people with a LOT of backpacking experience. These folks are much more problematic than their novice counterparts. They will stress over every one of their beloved camping items, and I will encourage these experienced campers to NIX a lot of extraneous stuff, and often I'll fail.

MY ADVICE TO YOU:
========================

Freekin' GO FOR IT!

Sleep under the stars! Ditch the tent (and I'm serious about this one)! Your irrational fear of "creepy-crawlies" is NOT based on any kind of reality! You are dealing with a supposed fear, not one that is born out by experience.

I am serious here. Jump in with abandonment! No toilet paper, No tent, no "extra" clothes, no water filter! (I teach women camping all the time, so I speak from experience!)

More advice:
TRUST BRYCE!

peace from Idaho,
Mike C!

Thanks for everyone's insight. I knew when she posted it would bring in a lot of BPL opinions. It's fun to hear about what worked, and what did not. We're talking about my Bday in Sept and what we'd like to do. We'll probably figure something out for that time frame when it isn't so hot and bugs aren't as bad.

Mike – The check is in the mail….actually, can we just come for a 2 week hike in your neck of the woods? :p

i got my wife into backpacking. it doesn't mean it will work for you. but i have learned just to make some decisions and let her feedback tell me if she likes them or not. the more time she spends out the easier her comfort level gets. i do have anxiety about wet, wind blown rain under the tarp making her miserable. that situation makes me miserable as well though.

my thoughts are you can't make someone enjoy backpacking/hiking…just expose them, read them and try to help make it as enjoyable as possible. i know the time my wife and i spend out is what it is about. we deal with the rest. hope this perspective helps.

Thanks for the insights Mike, but I'm sticking to my guns. Tents with bottoms and campsites with bathrooms FTW. :)

I think day hikes and the gym to get in shape, plus some cabins up north will be the way I need to approach this with Kathleen. This will also stop me from fighting with myself to buy the lightest 2 person shelter (at the risk of having to sell it if she is not enjoy) or a moderate weight, full floor tent (at the risk of her getting into the past time and wanting to go lighter over time).

I still maintain my Birthday wish is for her to sh_t in the woods! :p

First, on Mike's suggestion, actually probably not the best idea. I know from experience, irrational or not, if you are worried and paranoid about bugs all night, you'll never sleep and that makes for a worse trip. Not to mention, you don't have to compromise those points to have a great ultralight backpacking trip. I don't know if I'm repeating this suggestion or not but check out some of Henry Shires Tarptents as a great compromise. The Squall 2 has the bathtub floor, mesh door, fully enclosed from bugs and creepy crawlies and is just a little over 1lb per person. As a girl who is totally with you on the bugs and critters, these tents have really been my go-to when it comes to super light while still ensuring I spend the night alone, Especially since I'm not really willing to compromise on weight or my "irrational" fear of nighttime guests.

"I still maintain my Birthday wish is for her to sh_t in the woods! :p"

I love the comedic feel of the backpackinglight forums. We are just one big twisted family.

I have a funny youtube video for you to show her.

http://youtu.be/_dLvdBFTtFk (watch the whole thing)

MLife Membership….. (Note to Kathleen :p)

http://www.randolphmountainclub.org/
The RMC cabins are rustic but nice, and cheap, $7 to $13 per person per night. They're ideally situated for climbing Mt. Adams, Jefferson and Madison in the White Mts (NH).

"TRUST BRYCE"

Well…I am sure Bryce is a great guy and has more experience in the outdoors, and it's important to trust each other in a relationship, but I would not know enough to just say that to someone online. Trust him, but trust yourself even more, which you seem to be doing. Mute point, I guess.
When I was a little girl at the doctors, about to get a shot in the arm, and I was scared, my mom told me not to look and it would be better. The doctor disagreed and advised me not to let anyone inject me or do anything else to me without looking and being aware in general. Well, I trusted my mom, but I got the message.
Geesh, you'd think I am having a bad day, nit picking like this and all, but I am actually having a great day.
Welcome to the forum, and I hope you have had a chance to see some of the great trip reports on here. Very inspiring.

Wait until autumn for a real backpacking trip, no creepy crawlies and it's the ideal time to be outdoors in New England.

In the meantime:
RMC cabins (cheap) or AMC huts or lodges ($$$).

Car camp (or cabins) at State campgrounds near N. Adams, Mass:
Savoy Mt. State Forest or Mohawk Trail State Forest.
Do day hikes in the area (AT, MT. Greylock). Try to check out shelters and privies on the AT.
Spend an afternoon at the Clark Art Institute (http://clarkart.edu/) or Mass Moca (contemporary art,
http://www.massmoca.org/ ).

Car camp at NY's Taconic State Park. Day hike in Mass, AT (bear mt, mt Everett, Race Mt), south Taconic Trail. Check out some AT shelters and privies for approval for an autumn backpack. Check out the wilderness camping area in Mt. Washington State Forest (Mass). Go into Great Barrington, Mass, for a nice dinner.

"Thanks for the insights Mike, but I'm sticking to my guns. Tents with bottoms and campsites with bathrooms FTW. :)"

Hi Kathleen and Bryce,

This is my first post here, I live in the Mid-Hudson Valley. I'm a 80's style backpacker, learning to lighten up.

Perhaps the South Taconic trail would work for you. You could start on Rt. 44 by Catamount (Downhill ski area) and hike to Taconic State Park (NY) which has toilets and showers. Enjoy a dip in the lake and then have an evening stroll to Bash Bish Falls.

The second day hike to Alander Mt. (Old fire tower cabin) and then on to Brace Mt and out to Amenia. This is a short intro trip with great views and some of the amenities that Kathleen would prefer. Great views and trails too. Not too far a drive as well.

All the best,

TrailManny

Kathleen,

My advice would be to try this stuff in the comfort of your own home/apt/house rental. Your first time peeing in the woods can be in the seclusion of your own back yard. It may seem weird, but it's a good way to try it with a clear shot into the house should anything go wrong. It likely won't, but it's the proximity to the safety of a bathroom and a change of clothes is what's important. So why not give that a try prior to the trip? Animals go to the bathroom outside all the time and lawns/trees/bushes/whatever and the grass still continues to live. It'll undoubtedly be fine with you too.

You had also mentioned that Bryce has bug netting. The cool thing about that is that it was specifically designed to address your fears! It's MEANT to keep the bugs out. What I would do, BEFORE your trip, is to give that a shot in your back yard (preferably away from the pee mark, hehe). It'll give you a baseline for your comfort with the situation, and you can always pack up and walk back into the house and to your bed! How cool is that?

I just think at home might be the best way for you to try something new in the safety of 10-20 feet from comfort.

Have fun! Remember too that it's just glorified walking with sleeping at the end. Different from your usual digs for sure, but it's a day like any other.

Also check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwmwxkD86Ec which is Mike Clelland's advice on pooping in the woods. He's at the extreme end of the topic and believes in not using TP, but you can avoid that aspect and just pay attention to the way he's showing you to have your legs and such.

Not to throw a wrench in this wheel, but cabins and established campsites tend to attract rodents. I mean let's be honest, if we were mice, we'd want to hang out in a nice sheltered cabin and eat crumbs and scraps too. Also, back-country toilets aren't exactly known for their cleanliness. It's not as if they're cleaned every morning by the cleaning crew.

There are some definite benefits of cabins. I mean they concentrate the environmental impact into one place, BUT that means that those "impacts" occur in the controlled space of the cabin. I'm not anti-cabin. I think that they're a good thing for the mountain, but not for the reasons that you're hoping.

I've stayed in cabins, and honestly the mice and snoring didn't bother me one bit. I'll eat the hot, unlimited soup at the full-service cabins, BUT some people WILL be kept awake most of the night by the tickle of little toes and the sounds from other people. The cabins are fun, because you get to chat with fellow hikers, but there's no place for "cuddle time."

Peeing and sh#tting in the woods is the simplest thing in the world. Believe me, walk around long enough and you will have NO PROBLEM doing what you need to do outside.

Mike's right – you just need to jump in and enjoy yourself. Go on a proper camping trip with your BF. If you try to go halfway, I think you'll end up running into all the things you want to avoid and then never want to go backpacking again. Go out and enjoy yourself!

That's a funny topic, i can only think if someone wanted me to dress in pink girly dresses, go shopping all day and end up watching some TV show i don't care for.. how would i feel? I'll be more like this is a huge waste of time , i'd rather go hiking/biking/etc. I'm not saying what i do is better.. but everyone is different, no?

As far as tents go, the DR Tarptent is a nice spacious backpacking tent. Throw in two neoairs, a good down quilt for two, and montbell pillows, you get a luxurious sleeping arrangement that rivals hotel beds (dramatization!). Osprey backpacks have good lightweight frames and are very comfortable and cool looking.

And sh.t.ing in the woods? Please please tell us what's the big difference of doing it there vs. on the toilet? We can only help you in this area once you define exactly what scares you in this process when performed outside.

good luck!

+1 to Tommy

The backcountry toilets I've seen were almost as funky as James Brown. Find an unused area all your own.

+1 to Double Rainbow Neos and a quilt.