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Poo Trowels
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Jun 13, 2011 at 11:21 am #1748608
"Do I need it? No. Is it awesome? Yes."
And that, my friend, is more than good enough for me!
Sep 17, 2011 at 7:28 am #1780326I can see the appeal of not carrying such a specialized item, but in my experience in the Sierras there is no way I could dig the recommended six inch deep hole by using my heel or a stick. And turning over a rock would rarely get me six inches down.
Plus, when you have to go you sometimes find the ground has smallish rocks and/or roots and it takes some real hacking, chopping, and prying to make a proper hole.
For me the standard orange plastic trowel works great, and I wouldn't leave home without it. I guess I'll just have to use it to eat my freezer bag cooked dinner to fit in with the ultralight crowd! : )
Sep 17, 2011 at 10:43 pm #1780477Agreed – I too have read a bunch of methods here and have tried testing them and run into issues.
Rock turnover – not deep enough. I could see turning over a rock and then digging as an effective concealment technique, however.
Stick – takes a really long time to get wide and deep enough.
Heel – Difficult to get deep enough and with my trail runners I end up with a bunch of dirt in my shoes I have to clean out. I believe this is partially/completely due to the fact around here I need to strike hard enough to cut through roots/moss/etc which causes a fair amount of spray. I could see this working well with traditional boots however.For those that use a tent stake I'd like to know how long it takes you to dig.
Just got a big dig myself – came yesterday so haven't had a chance to try it.
Sep 18, 2011 at 7:20 am #1780505The Big Dig works great! I love mine!
Sep 18, 2011 at 8:27 am #1780520Does the lack of pointiness of the Big Dig make it hard to penetrate tough turf or dig into rocky soil? I would think my pointy orange plastic trowel packs more pounds per inch when stabbing at tough soil and roots. How's the Big Dig working for you?
Sep 18, 2011 at 8:59 am #1780531The orange trowel can break, whereas Rob's Big Dig won't. The thin metal will cut through small roots fine, and there really is no need for a pointed end on the Big Dig. An added bonus is that you will score extra "cool points" when comparing gear with strangers on the trail.
Sep 18, 2011 at 9:03 am #1780533Doug says,
"I would think my pointy orange plastic trowel packs more pounds per inch "You're absolutely right! The orange plastic trowel does indeed pack more pounds per inch! :D
Seriously, rocks don't phase it, and it goes thru fine roots with no problem.
Sep 18, 2011 at 9:04 am #1780535You can use your trowel as a stake, a trowel and a shoe horn. Triple use. The Montbell one is just fractionally heavier than a SMC snow stake once you remove the webbing loop. I'm sure the BIg Dig works well too. I've broken too many of the plastic ones in that concrete like soil in southern CA.
Sep 18, 2011 at 4:45 pm #1780652> The orange trowel can break, whereas (Titanium) won't.
> The thin metal will cut through small roots fine,
+1 on both (from field experience).Cheers
Sep 19, 2011 at 2:15 pm #1780947I'm sure the plastic trowel can break. Heck, I've broken titanium items.
That said, I've been using the same orange plastic trowel for decades, not counting a few times I've tried out snow stakes. I did cut the end off the handle to shorten/lighten it slightly (mostly to fit in the pocket it goes to), but it's never broken nor failed to dig a decent hole. It's easy to find at night (and day) being orange and I think it conveys what it is when I leave it stuck in the ground adjacent to our out-of-camp, multiuse latrine groove. It's not heavy, and not light I agree, but it digs better than a snow stake in my experience, both for speed and effectiveness.
I think it was 3 bucks and I'm pretty sure the same orange plastic trowel is still sold.
I use the amortized savings to justify my beryllium camp stove.
Sep 20, 2011 at 12:19 pm #1781243I like the Big Dig, I got one recently and used it in Big Sur for 8 days last week, which tends to have rocky soil. You have to do a lot more scraping when you hit rocks, and you can't really pry them out unless you use your hands, which is how I did it, but other than that it's fine. Also has a nice secondary use of protecting the cheap soda bottle holding alcholol fuel in my backpack side pocket, since its curve is about the same as the 20 oz soda bottles (and I definitely don't trust that bottle on its own over a long trip). And you can use the tyvek envelope it comes in as a case.
Without tyvek: 15.7 gm
with tyvek: 19.2 gmweights vary since these are handmade items.
I don't really think the lack of a point matters, when you hit rocks the point isn't going to help you much anyway.
I'd used ordinary garden trowels before, which are without any question superior in every way except size and weight. Last normal one I used, about 4.5 oz, I did pick up a plastic one, that was lighter, I think about 3oz, but I never used it. If I were given the task of digging a larger hole for a group I think I'd just bring a real trowel and call it a day though.
Sep 21, 2011 at 6:35 am #1781536I've found if you can hold it a bit until you find a gopher, you can give him a nice gift using the soft dirt pushed out of his hole.
Sep 21, 2011 at 11:56 am #1781692Or the mouse tunnels found at high altitude!
Sep 21, 2011 at 12:38 pm #1781705You two are deranged! Must be the economy…Or is this what ladies do when they hike solo, when they think nobody will know? What about it, Kat, Diana V., is this the way it is? Dr. Ide, would you be so kind as to hold a counselling session with these lost souls? We must get them under control before PETA finds out what they do out there.
Edit–it's PETA, not PITA, silly
Sep 21, 2011 at 1:00 pm #1781714"We must get them under control before PITA finds out what they do out there."
It certainly borders on animal cruelty.
–B.G.–
Sep 21, 2011 at 1:20 pm #1781719"Edit–it's PETA, not PITA, silly"
You mentioned Kat P., so I think PITA was correct……
Sep 21, 2011 at 1:33 pm #1781722I can't speak for anyone else, but I use my titanium poo trowel.
Sep 21, 2011 at 1:40 pm #1781726At times it's just perfect. Plus I battle gophers at work and at home all the time , so there!
Not that often, but yeah…Sep 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm #1781800I like that we are talking p++p here!
Sep 21, 2011 at 7:07 pm #1781865I've broken two orange trowels, not worth having for Sierra trips. I had been using a wide tent stake I modified slightly, the Big Dig I have now is only a tiny bit lighter, but easier on the hand and protects small gear in the outside pocket on my pack.
DuaneOct 13, 2011 at 12:22 pm #1790095Aluminum Stake wrapped in some cord. The cord provides a great handle, and is also functional if I need some rope (which are circumstances I've definitely run into before and it has saved my ass) and the stake works for my tent setup very well. :)
Jan 21, 2012 at 6:22 pm #1827872DIY is hard to beat for price, weight and functionality. At 15g and 70c material cost in my favourite DIY material (Al-u-Drillium), this started life as 20cm of 15 x 15 x 1.4 mm angle from any hardware store and ended up (flared to 2 cm width in the digging end) as a multi-functional trowel / back-up peg. Like all lightweight gear you can break it if you want (use it as a crowbar), or use it sensibly for a very long life. For the latter, first dig vertically the required hole shape for your deposit, then spade out the loosened soil / cut roots / excavated stones. You do not need Kubota dimensions for this purpose – if you miss the target, push the deposit in with a stick after the event. Depth is more important – 100-150 mm (4-6") for rapid recycling without risk of infecting and offending those who pass nearby later.
The sharpened end cuts small roots. The retained (but widened) V shape helps with strength, and with lifting out the soil. The holes in the grip portion are for the weight-obsessive (holes in the spade end would make about as much sense as holes in a bucket). I did not need to heat-anneal the angle before hammering it to the desired shape in a few stages over a few minutes.
Mar 4, 2012 at 8:05 am #1848524Here all of you have been talking about catholes, digging catholes, and implements for digging catholes for months, and I missed it. Gotta be more vigilant.
Anyway, I can't resist some comments now that I found the thread.
First, I appreciate all the kind comments here and elsewhere from the many BPL'ers who use and approve my Original and Big Dig titanium trowels. Glad you like 'em so much. I'm still making them one at a time, by hand, in my basement. So if anyone was wondering, they are made in the USA. Go to QiWiz.net to order if you are so inclined.
You might ask yourself, what kind of trowel does Rob use? Well actually, I use a one-of-a-kind hybrid that's a little bigger than an Original and a little smaller than a Big Dig. Other than the size, it's made just like my other trowels. I have more than 1000 trail miles hiking with it, and it's still going strong. Here's a photo:
OK, enough on my gear. Now for some comments about the issue of backcountry human waste disposal. Yes, I mean POUP! We can also euphemistically call these "deposits".
Implements: Whatever works for you to dig your cathole is not important. So if you find that your boot heel or a stick does the job, or a plastic trowel, or a tent stake, that is just fine. In my experience in the Eastern and Western USA, I frequently encounter soils that I could not possibly excavate with my shoe or a stick in any reasonable period of time. I also tried and broke numerous plastic trowels, which was one of the reasons I developed my own tougher titanium trowel. Even a sturdy, heavy, garden trowel that works well in most soils does not work well in dense grassy turf. For that you need a much thinner sharper option, like mine. A tent stake, especially if sharpened, can be good at loosening soil in your cathole, but in my experience takes much longer to dig with because (unless you use your hands), you need something wider to scoop the loosened soil out of your hole.
Advanced Cathole Techniques: In digging a cathole, the whole point of it is to help your waste decompose as quickly as possible, and not contaminate water sources, the trail, or a campsite. So site selection is important. Hence the recommendation to be 200 feet (70 big steps) from water, trail, and campsite. The advice to dig 6 inches down is sound in forest duff with a deep layer of organic biologically active soil. Where topsoil is thinner, you still want to make your deposit in, and mix it well with this biologically active layer, so this may mean adjusting your cathole depth. Deposits made in mineral soil will take much longer to decompose. TP, if you use it, should either be mixed really well with your deposit, water, and soil or packed out. To do this, use a stick, or even a longish rock, not your trowel. This will result in better and faster decomposition. This technique is known as making POUP SOUP, and the full recipe is included with every one of my trowels.
What about the rock-moving method? I've certainly had to go in an area with little or no biologically active soil around, and just rocks from the size of big sand grains up to big boulders. In this situation, moving a rock to create a hole to put your deposit into is sometimes the best you can do, but I would always try to see if I had a better option. Usually you can at least find a bit of biologically active soil to mix in to your hole, or dig further down after the rock is moved, or something of that nature.
Mar 5, 2012 at 6:00 pm #1849275Rob, will having one of your Big Dig trowels make catholing so much fun that my boyfriend will agree to hike somewhere there is no pit toilet? He says that after doing the Wonderland Trail, he doesn't want to hike anywhere for more than a couple of days where he has to dig a cat-hole! That lets out a lot of territory!
Mar 5, 2012 at 6:05 pm #1849278"he doesn't want to hike anywhere for more than a couple of days where he has to dig a cat-hole!"
Let me get this straight… Two days of cat-holing is OK, but more than two days is not OK? Yes, there are therapists who can deal with that.
–B.G.–
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