Poo Trowels

[Will Webster]

I think it's important to keep in mind that what is appropriate and effective in one area may be inappropriate and/or ineffective in another. I've hiked places where my shoe heel does a great job of digging a cathole, places where the only option short of power tools and explosives is to search for a rock which can be turned over, and places where the only ethical solution is to pack it out in a wag bag. In the mid-Atlantic green tunnel where I do most of my hiking, a tool which can cut through a network of thin surface roots is essential. Currently I'm using a Fiskars plastic garden trowel with cut-down handle, but my inner gear freak really wants a Big Dig.

[John Donewar]

Back in my traditional hiker days I carried one of these.

Then I discovered this website and it became one of these.

Later I got caught up in the dual use movement. ;-)

But it wasn't really dual use. If the tent was up I was out of luck. So I either carried a trowel, an "extra stake" or used a stick.

So now I am back to this.

It's 0.31 ounces heavier than the MSR Blizzard stake which I have since retired to the gear closet. I secure my tent with Ti shepherds hook stakes and dig my cat holes when needed with my modified plastic trowel.

As far as the leave no trace ethic goes, animals have "gone" in the woods for centuries. To my knowledge very few of them cover up or pack out their "souvenirs". I very much doubt any of the animals look for a spot 200 feet or more off trail and below and away from a water source before they relieve themselves. In fact in the Grayson Highlands the hiker's water source by Thomas Knob Shelter is fenced off to keep the wild ponies away.

IMHO there is no real harm done by a responsible hiker who "goes" way off trail, in a cat hole below and away from water sources and "covers his tracks" well.

That being said last year I covered 100 miles on the AT and had no need for a single cat hole. On the more highly traveled trails the availability of privies and trail towns compensate fairly well for the increased number of hikers and decrease the need for cat holes. YMMV

Party On,

Newton

[Robert Blean]

One thing about that LNT page caught me by surprise. They urge you you to build any fire you do build on a pre-existing fire site. Then they say "Burn all wood and coals to ash, put out campfires completely, then scatter cool ashes."

I understand everything they are saying other than why I should want to scatter the ashes. If my fire was on a pre-existing (evidently permanent) fire site, why not leave the ashes in place?

1) Unnecessary strewing of ashes does not sound LNT to me
2) Most people will have at least a little charcoal in their ashes — and that will degrade very slowly. Better to let it remain in the established fireplace.

What am I missing?

[Erik Basil]

I think the ashes spread vs. buried in place issue is one outside the scope of the much more important, "how do you dig a cathole?" issue this thread is intended for.

Hey, I have the same trowel as John/Newt!

Here's a swing on the LNT issue: when I hit a campsite with multiple people or where there's more than one day to stay, I believe that both impact and effort are minimized with a latrine trench, which is refilled sectionally as it's used. When completed and recovered, there's a linear concentration of waste, but a minimized number of holes and locations.

Of course, there is only one way to dig such a thing and anyone doing it differently is just plain wrong. :)

[John Donewar]

"Hey, I have the same trowel as John/Newt"!

Erik,

How did you come by yours?

I was looking at a post that described how easily broken the plastic trowels were in their factory new configuration. The OP of the thread described how his had broken about mid way up the "scoop" section. He said that he proceded to use what was left to finish the job. To his amazement not only did it work but it seemed to do an equal if not better job. Upon returning home he headed for the workshop to shape and file the broken trowel into what inspired me to modify mine as pictured in my post above.

FWIW Along the AT at shelters where there isn't a privy some thoughtful trail maintenance types usually leave a real full size steel and wood shovel. It's not quite as HD as Dale's Kubota up above but I have seen other hikers drop their pack, pick up the shovel and hurry off into the bushes. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Harald Hope]

John, I'm not completely up on the actual biology of the question of human waste, but I believe the basic takeaway is that we are, simply put, very dirty animals, with very bad diets, and a lot of very unhealthy organisms in our systems. So our waste is different than normal wild animal waste. So leaving it uncovered means spreading diseases, since animals will then eat our waste, and then proceed to spread all of those lovely creatures we carry in our guts. I think that's the general idea anyway.

I can't remember how giardia first spread, but I believe backpackers were a key component of its spread. I'm rusty on the details though. Now I guess it spread as well via stock animals, and deer and some others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia

that article says the main cause of spread is person to person transmission, with water etc being second. But if it's right, which I assume it largely is, humans are the main vector.

So whether one uses rocks or cat holes, burying the waste is really a good thing to do. Maybe in some long lost past world where human impact was not as aggressive as it is here today, we could do like the other animals, but that world is gone.

By the way, it always cracks me up when someone posts about drinking unfiltered water, well, it looks clean… as if you can see tiny protozoa, or smell them, or whatever.

[John Donewar]

Harald,

"So leaving it uncovered means spreading diseases…"

I never suggested leaving "our" waste uncovered. I merely stated that most of the animals do not dig "cat holes". I do believe the term came about because of our feline friends. ;-?

Read on down further in my earlier post.

"IMHO there is no real harm done by a responsible hiker who "goes" way off trail, in a cat hole below and away from water sources and "covers his tracks" well".

"goes" – relieves himself

"covers his tracks" – after placing a sufficient amount of dirt over the waste the hiker places a large rock, dead fall or some other suitable object over the site.

"below and away from water sources" – self explanatory

"So whether one uses rocks or cat holes, burying the waste is really a good thing to do. Maybe in some long lost past world where human impact was not as aggressive as it is here today, we could do like the other animals, but that world is gone".

I agree that burying the waste is a really good thing to do. But again I never suggested otherwise.

I don't want to see, smell or walk up on someone elses deposit while I'm hiking.

Party on,

Newton

[Justin Baker]

Bob, that page was just misleading in the way that it is written. Scattering your ashes only applies to fires outside of designated rings. When making a fire outside of a ring, I always crush up the coals by stomping with my foot. Big coals sit around forever, ash and crushed up coals get washed away into the ground by the rain. Throw some dirt over the pile to conceal it too.
Doing that is so much better than building those stupid rock rings in lesser used places and ruining the perceived remoteness of the area. It's just trashy and does make it any safer.

[Anonymous]

"Not sure why however you are so opposed to a little .5oz ti poo trowel, those things are nice, I just used it on a 5 day trip in the cascades"

Harald,

I never said I was opposed to Ti trowels; i said quite the opposite, as should be clear if you read my last post. I just find no need to carry one myself. From my personal point of view, they are just dead weight and take up space, even if not much. However, I have no problem whatsoever with others choosing to use them. As I said: SYOS.

As for your 5 day trip in the Cascades, it nicely supports my statement that there too many mountain environments to apply a "one size fits all" approach to LNT. I live in Seattle, and have spent considerable time in the Cascades over the last 20 plus years, mostly climbing in the higher alpine zones where conditions differ considerably from those you describe on your 5 day trip. A trowel would not be very useful up there, where even an ice axe requires a bit of work to scratch out a cathole in many places. Much easier to either prise out a small boulder or pull back a fallen log(if you are at timber line). I suspect you were down a bit lower in heavily forested areas where the soil is, indeed, very appropriate for a trowel, if that is your preference. There are many different approaches to achieving LNT when pooing. Let us not blindly cast aspersions on those whose approaches differ from our own without first analyzing what they are saying. I am not referring to you here but, rather, a couple of rather condescending previous posts by people who obviously do not have much experience to the varied conditions encountered in different mountain settings.

[BlackHatGuy]

I've hiked a bit
I've eaten, too
I do believe
It's time to poo!

But what to do about my poo?
Should I leave it in my shoe?
Should I put it in a sack?
Or hold a ziploc against my crack?

Should I just turn over rocks?
Perhaps it'll all fit in a sock!
A new Ti-trowel would sure be grand
To help bury my poo deep in the sand.

I can't just leave it in plain sight!
Gosh, even I know that's not right!
I guess I'll do what I always do.
It must work, no one's ever found my poo……

[Jerry Adams]

That leaves us wondering

What does he do with his poo?

[Mary D]

We have a poet here! LOL, Doug!

[JP]

–

[Erik Basil]

Well, I still can't buy at ti trowel, because the old reliable, orange plastic trowel lives on. One thing I noticed this last trip, where I didn't dig all the trenches, is that the bright orange makes it easier to find where you're headed to when wandering out to "the site".

In comparison to the snow stake, which looks a lot cooler, the orange trowel was clearly preferred by all who had to dig in Sierran soil — easier on the hands when chopping the top layer and better when scooping the deeper soil.

[David Thomas]

I think I know where Doug sits while composing poetry!

[Franco Darioli]

Easier on the hand…

Try using it this way :

Franco

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