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Backcountry Boiler Mk II available!


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  • #1738071
    drowning in spam
    Member

    @leaftye

    Locale: SoCal

    The cost of titanium boilers might be prohibitive enough that you won't want to keep any on the shelves, but you might want to consider pre-orders and maybe even non-refundable retainers. I'd be happy to drop some money as a retainer. If the final price is higher than I can afford, then I'm okay with the retainer becoming a donation to get this new project going.

    #1738072
    Devin Montgomery
    BPL Member

    @dsmontgomery

    Locale: one snowball away from big trouble

    You guys are relentless. :)

    #1738085
    billy goat
    BPL Member

    @billygoat

    Locale: West.

    :)

    #1738093
    . Callahan
    BPL Member

    @aeronautical

    Locale: London, UK.

    Hey! You started it! (o:

    And we're pretty glad that you did…

    #1738378
    Christopher Taggart
    Member

    @penndude

    Locale: Western PA

    Titanium addiction > Meth addiction.

    We have problems.

    #1738459
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    a ti "chimney kettle" is possible if you think differently…

    #1738464
    Mark Ries
    Spectator

    @mtmnmark

    Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    In veiw of the fact that Devon most likely needs time to focus on whats on his plate and the direction he is currently headed I motion that we end the titanium discussion till a later date when he hase time does anyone second this motion?

    #1738465
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    a ti "chimney kettle" is possible if think differently (ie different structure)….

    #1738501
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Wait – the ti version would be heavier and much more costly? Sorry, what is the point then?

    #1738503
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "Wait – the ti version would be heavier and much more costly? Sorry, what is the point then?"

    not if its a different form of "chimney kettle"…

    #1738524
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    "not if its a different form of "chimney kettle"…"

    I am not good at riddles.

    #1738535
    Rakesh Malik
    Member

    @tamerlin

    Locale: Cascadia

    "Wait – the ti version would be heavier and much more costly? Sorry, what is the point then?"

    Devin's research lead him to the conclusion that a Ti version would require a considerably more costly process to manufacture than the aluminum version, and in addition Ti costs quite a bit more than aluminum. Since the reason that titanium pots and such generally weigh less than aluminum ones is that they involve less metal, by taking advantage of titanium's exemplary strength, you have to use really thin walls to make titanium pot that's lighter than an aluminum pot — thinner than the aluminum equivalent… which as I understand it, makes for an even more complicated process for manufacturing the suckers.

    So, either you'd end up paying for more expensive materials (titanium) and not saving much weight, or you'd end up paying for more expensive materials + a very expensive manufacturing process.

    It sounds like there's a *possibility* (maybe I should say potential possibility?) that Evernew could make one at a price point that would be marketable, but Devin's skeptical. Given Devin's research, his skepticism doesn't surprise me — but maybe it would be worth a look after he gets done with the current production run. I'll have to leave that up to him though; I'm just glad that he's getting them into production and that I have a chance to support him… also, I'm looking forward to getting one :)

    #1738540
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Hey – I am the first to love Ti – I have a bunch of it. But based on Devin's previous post, it implies that he would have to use something different that is in the thin walled Ti that I have in my possession which would equate to something heavier.

    #1738630
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "not if its a different form of "chimney kettle"…

    I am not good at riddles."

    The chimney needs to be on the outside of the pot…
    construction suddenly becomes easy, can use foil

    #1738877
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "not if its a different form of "chimney kettle"…"
    "I am not good at riddles."

    Here is a diagram of my idea, which keeps the conventional chimney kettle's advantage of "chimney effect", windproof-ness and keeping soot inside, away from the user.

    NB I have built a non-collapsable stainless steel foil variant with standard fire-base and a stainless steel (boston tin) conic "pot": the lot weighted 11oz

    Note the cone is welded closed, it is collapsed around the "pot" to keep soot away from the user.
    Similarly, the fire-base would be collapsed. The 0.003 in ti foil should allow this, I think (Suluk46 has windshields like this).

    The aluminium/ti pot is a conic shape to increase surface area.
    The conic pot would not normally be removed from cone: to pour cone and pot would be lifted together.

    However, if desired, to cook, if you could face some sooty-pan-ness, you could remove the conic pot and place a frying pan etc on top. Or wrap stuff in leaves and cook on the embers.

    A disadvantage compared to back country boiler might be that any mid-boil fuel top-ups might require lifting of the cone(and pot).
    The advantage would be the weight, and the fact it could scale down to a "1 cup" size pot if desired.

    How much efficiency(if any) is lost is unknown, however the non-collapsable unit seemed OK.

    Inverse chimney ti

    #1738879
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    Looks like a Caldera Cone.

    #1738882
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "Looks like a Caldera Cone."
    Yes,

    BUT, as mentioned,

    1) tall narrow conic pot completely enclosed
    (tallness gives the chimney effect, conic-ness increases the surface area to counter-act pot's narrowness).

    2) cone is welded closed, so not unrolled, soot kept tidily inside like standard chimney kettle.

    #1738895
    billy goat
    BPL Member

    @billygoat

    Locale: West.

    That is the exact same shape, size, and dimensions as the Backcountry boiler, but instead of being sealed at the top, it is open, and there is a tight-fitting ring-like lid. Manufacturing something like this would certainly be a lot easier than the Boiler because it wouldn't require the sealed, joined top (the cross-section would basically be a "V" shape).

    It could use the existing sleeves and stuffsacks, and the only drawback would be you couldn't use it for water storage. On the other hand, you'd have access to the chamber for cleaning (and therefore cooking).

    #1738931
    brent driggers
    BPL Member

    @cadyak

    Locale: southwest georgia

    You should build one and test it Alan. How did your stainless version work for woodburning? In my experience the design shown above will work with an alcohol stove but will be extremely difficult to keep lit in a woodburning configuration without the most pristine of dry wood. I have made a number of stoves with a very similar concept. The problem has been that no matter how many vents you have at the top it still requires a min. clearance from flame to pot. I have many pictures/videos but did not want to hijack
    the boiler thread.

    #1738967
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    I think I might.

    The stainless version worked OK so far: 2in gap between pot and standard fire-base.

    and a top lit twigs fire boiled 500ml in approx 7 minutes, without refuelling.

    #1739117
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    Different set up…
    The Backcountry Boiler is ready to go as you take it out of the bag.
    As it burns you can drop more wood inside if required.
    When the water boils you just pick the boiler up and pour the water out.
    No assembly, easy to feed, very safe. And as mentioned the soot is out of touch at all times.
    Franco

    #1739259
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "Different set up…
    The Backcountry Boiler is ready to go as you take it out of the bag….
    No assembly, easy to feed, very safe. And as mentioned the soot is out of touch at all times."

    Yes, but my idea does not have that much more assembly, and still keeps soot inside:

    1) the cone is to be welded closed, and collapsed around the pot, so to use, remove from bag, cone pops back into shape, foil base pops into shape, fill cup, load base, light, place cone/cup over base, wait.

    2) the soot is still kept inside the cone as it collapses around pot rather than being unrolled like a caldera cone. Similarly the firebase is crumple-able/collapse-able.

    3) Yes, any mid burn refuelling would be less convenient, when needed, but batch loading is more convenient when possible.

    However, it seems a reasonable compromise in return for a significant weight reduction, for those for who would prefer lighter at expense of the slightly less convenience compared to the "neater" back country boiler.

    I.e., some people seem to think the back country boiler is nice but too heavy for them, the above compromise could keep most of its advantages for those people, while others can buy the boiler for its neatness.

    #1739407
    Franco Darioli
    Spectator

    @franco

    Locale: Gauche, CU.

    Alan
    No offence, but what appears to be working, in theory or after one or two burns, and what really does work are two different matters as Devin found out making the boiler.
    (in his case mostly about how to manufacture it, the theory had already been worked out).
    For a start , It may not be obvious to you , but when you remove your cup/pot it will also be coated with soot , not just the inside of your cone .
    You would also need a floor and of course you would need to manufacture a cone shaped cup.
    (not cheap in small quantities)
    However if you want to work along this lines you could get hold of a Swiss Army Ranger volcano stove.
    That comes with a conical aluminium cup. (about 1 pint from memory. I had one)
    Franco

    #1739551
    al b
    BPL Member

    @ahbradley

    "Alan
    No offence,…. your cup/pot it will also be coated with soot , not just the inside of your cone. You would also need a floor…"

    None taken,
    but
    the idea is that for boiling water only mode (i.e. back country boiler style),
    the cup is not normally removed, it is lifted with the cone still attached, just like lifting the kettle off the back country boiler.

    The ti foil floor and fire-box are one unit, as shown.

    Swiss ranger cup idea: Thanks, should be lighter than stainless steel boston cocktail tins.

    More burn testing would be required, but I can see no obvious flaw..

    I looked a utube video of the swiss volcano: it seems quite similar (I had not realized the out vents were near the top of cup).

    However, a cone allows more internal area, and according to wiki, chimney effect is proportional to height and area.
    Reviews seem to mention that the the volcano stove has very little chimney effect, presumably due to the small area of said "chimney".

    Also, a cone allows a bigger fire-base, thus hopefully often avoiding need for re-load.

    However, cup does not look quite as conical as I would like, so probably not as efficient as it could be, but probably OK, so I may get one

    #1739584
    Steve M
    BPL Member

    @steve-2

    Locale: Eastern Washington

    Alan, Your idea looks interesting. Have you considered a high temperature outer insulator for the cone? This should raise the internal temperature for a better burn and speed the boil time. It may also allow you to lift/handle the cone during use. I'd suggest CarbonX ( http://www.concordcoinc.com/index.aspx?Command=GroupInfo&GroupID=9937) or a similar material.

    Steve

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