- May 13, 2011 at 4:39 am #1736084JPBPL Member
–May 13, 2011 at 5:09 am #1736087Rog TallblokeBPL Member
@tallblokeLocale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
I did my bit to plug this for you too.
Time to get those spinning tools warm…May 13, 2011 at 7:01 am #1736099Dylan SnodgrassMember
@truenorthLocale: San Francisco, CA
Congratulations Devin. It is fun to be part of the BCB process. My BCB version 1.0 has been fantastic. I had no idea something like Kickstarter existed, totally cool…May 13, 2011 at 7:13 am #1736103Sarah KirkconnellBPL Member
@sarbarLocale: Homesteading On An Island In The PNW
Husband let it be known last night he bought in. Good boy!May 13, 2011 at 7:15 am #1736105John VanceBPL Member
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
Thanks for the link. I am in and glad to see such an innovative product being funded in an innovative way.May 13, 2011 at 7:31 am #1736108Joe ClementBPL Member
Bummer. I missed out on a numbered version for the second time.May 14, 2011 at 7:44 am #1736476Michael RollinsBPL Member
Does anyone happen to know if you might be able to but a pepsi stove in the burn chamber as a backup in case there is no dry fuel material available? I normally carry the bud-light alky stove, which would likely not work. But I've seen where bush-buddy users put a pepsi stove in the can for a backup.May 14, 2011 at 8:00 am #1736491May 14, 2011 at 8:32 am #1736504Rakesh MalikMember
Zelph has an alcohol burner called the "Companion Burner" on his site; it's pretty inexpensive, holds 3oz of fuel if I remember correctly, and it works quite well in a Kelly Kettle. The only problem that it might have with the BCB is size; if it fits, it should work great, but since the firepan for the BCB is smaller than the firepan for the Kelly Kettle it's possible that the companion burner won't fit in there.
I'll probably end up using alcohol at least as much as I use wood in my BCB when I get it, because most of the places I camp in the Cascades and Olympics have been no-fire zones. It makes me appreciate the kettle's versatility, because it extracts a lot of heat from an alcohol stove.May 14, 2011 at 9:01 am #1736512D GSpectator
@dangLocale: Pacific Northwet
As a backup you can pour alcohol directly into the firepan of the BCB and then partially cover the intake hole of the firepan (a strip of aluminum foil works good) to slow the burn rate. I've found you need to cover a large part of the hole, like 80% of it (very rough estimate so experiment). I was able to get 2 cups to boil with about 1/2 oz of alcohol by weight (think it was about 20ml) in about 10 minutes or so.May 15, 2011 at 1:55 pm #1736875Rakesh MalikMember
"As a backup you can pour alcohol directly into the firepan of the BCB…"
That's too easy ;)
It seems like it's only slightly less efficient than an actual alcohol burner (I finally read the review on LightweightOutdoors). I suppose it make sense though, since there are quite a few alcohol stoves that work pretty well, and are basically just fuel cups with air holes.May 17, 2011 at 7:55 pm #1737904Michael RollinsBPL Member
Thx for the alky / bcb responses. May just stick with my low cost bud-light bottle stove. But at 9.5 ounces for the bcb, that's pretty appealing. Amazing how quickly Devin raised the needed funds for his project.
MikeMay 17, 2011 at 7:57 pm #1737905
Devin's up to nearly $36,000 now. Amazing.May 18, 2011 at 3:02 am #1737983Nate DavisBPL Member
@knaightLocale: Western Massachusetts
I pulled the trigger on it, which surprises even me, because I love my alcohol stove. However, the thought of not having to carry or mess with fuel is way too appealing. Even on an overnight, the new setup will save me a couple ounces. On a multi-day trip? I'll be saving half a pound or more.
I've also been cooking with 91% isopropyl alcohol lately, because the toxicity of Heet worries me a bit. Isopropyl is sooty and inefficient, though, which means things get dirtier and my water takes longer to boil. A 4-5 minute boil time for two cups of water is going to be amazing.
I wouldn't spend this much simply to save a couple ounces, but it's absolutely worth it for the weight savings combined with the convenience.May 18, 2011 at 4:23 am #1737992
Looks like you're on track to $50,000 of orders… time to invest in creating Ti version and then get REI to buy a couple thousand of them just after selling a bunch to us???May 18, 2011 at 4:53 am #1737994mark coleBPL Member
Now you're talking. Not to keen on AL in my cookware but Ti would be awesome.May 18, 2011 at 5:22 am #1738000Fred ericBPL Member
@fre49Locale: France, vallée de la Loire
Yes i like my BB but i would buy a Ti one if weight is similar in an heartbeat.May 18, 2011 at 5:35 am #1738005
Isn't aluminum a better conductor of heat? I don't know, I'm asking. If so, then it seems like a Ti BCB would be less efficient.
Any of you scientific types want to chime in?May 18, 2011 at 5:41 am #1738008Miguel ArboledaBPL Member
@butukiLocale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Doug, I can just hear the jealousy in your voice… as you will hear in mine… if a Ti version is possible, wow.
Isn't titanium more difficult to extrude than aluminum? I'm also clueless about this… but I thought titanium is hard to work with.May 18, 2011 at 6:10 am #1738013
The raw material would be more expensive, and the process for making the boiler would be more expensive: because Ti is stronger, the weight savings come from using less material, but manufacturing a thinner-walled boiler is more difficult and would cost more.
But right now my alcohol stove beats out the boiler in terms of weight for any trip 10 days or less. However, if the boiler was 7.5 ounces (total) instead of 9.5 (total), it would win for anything longer than an overnight… and I'd buy one!
Doug: Aluminum disperses heat better, so traditionally if you're cooking something delicate in a frying pan it would be better, but thinner Ti (which causes hot spots) would probably be equally if not more efficient for boiling water. Either way I reckon differences would be rendered negligible by other variables like water temp, wood quality, etc.May 18, 2011 at 6:29 am #1738019
Thanks for the info!May 18, 2011 at 6:41 am #1738022Devin MontgomeryBPL Member
@dsmontgomeryLocale: one snowball away from big trouble
Hey all! I feel like a broken record, but I can't really convey how thankful I am to this community for supporting the Backcountry Boiler (even before it was the Backcountry Boiler). I had the good fortune of meeting with Steve Evans last week and we were going over the long list of really cutting-edge endeavors that have started here (we humbly considered our projects among them :) ). It's just so cool.
Yeah, so tell your friends about the Kickstarter project. The sky's the limit as far as how many I can make goes, and each additional Boiler sold moves me closer to having a job. :)
On Titanium: I'm just going to go ahead and say that there won't be a commercially viable titanium chimney kettle (so JB weld doesn't count :) ). It starts with the physical properties of the material itself. First, titanium is 1.5x heavier than aluminum. Second, aluminum (1100 series) is more than twice as elastic as titanium (CP2). In a metal spinning reference for instance, the elongation for 2" of 1100 aluminum is noted as 60%, but the same for CP2 titanium is only 25%. So you'd have to start with material that is way thinner (just to get the same weight) and that would have to do some kind of magic on to get it to stretch enough for the long convoluted shapes a real chimney kettle requires. There wasn't a single commercial shop that could make my 6 oz kettle, and all but one balked at the 8oz kettle. And that's in aluminum, which is one of the easiest metals to spin.
So then one looks to other fabrication methods, like sheet metal welding. But you still have very thin titanium that you then have to weld (also extremely difficult). The multiple-draw deep-drawing and then reducing process that I presume was used on the Vargo Ti Bottles isn't an option for the kinds of shapes involved in a chimney kettle. Then there's the material cost, easily 10X (or more) higher than aluminum. I'm not saying that NASA couldn't make one that would weigh about the same as the Boiler (but in titanium), but it just wouldn't be worth the astronomical price.
I did a lot of research into this when I was designing the Boiler. :) The other thing I did was look at the health concerns around aluminum being used in this context (occasionally, and just for the short-term storage and boiling of water), and found that there were none. There was one bad study in the 70s that claimed a link to Alzheimers, but it's been so discredited that the Alzheimer's Association calls the link a myth.
Anyway, so that why I'm using aluminum. There is one other metal that I've been looking into using, but it's not titanium.May 18, 2011 at 7:07 am #1738030Miguel ArboledaBPL Member
@butukiLocale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Devin, I'm friends with the president of Evernew (the Japanese company that makes the titanium pots). Really great guy. If you want I can ask him about the possibilities of making the kettle out of titanium and what he would recommend. Evernew's pots are extruded (not welded or epoxied), so they must know something that could help you. The last time I walked with him (when Glen Van Peski came to Japan last autumn) I asked him about how it is that titanium could be punched into the shapes the pots come in, since I had gotten the notion that titanium couldn't be shaped like that (and one reason why commercial one-piece, seamless soda cans that are extruded are made of aluminum. Steel cans are made from a rolled, welded piece, with a seam). He explained in exquisite detail how the pots are made… and they certainly are extruded!May 18, 2011 at 7:58 am #1738044Devin MontgomeryBPL Member
@dsmontgomeryLocale: one snowball away from big trouble
Thanks, Miguel. I know I need to get back to you about that second Boiler. I sent it over uninvited, so I'm really happy with any decision you make. If you have particularly deserving friend, for instance, that's just fine by me. :)
So they're impact extruded? Wow. That only makes sense at really high volumes, and the price of a Boiler that was impact extruded (if it could be) would be so high that the volume wouldn't come. If a much simpler Evernew pot retails for $70, then a similarly-made Boiler would have to cost at least $300 (probably a lot more) and I don't even want to think about how much the tooling would be. I appreciate the offer, but technical difficulties and price each alone exclude titanium from being a viable candidate for the Boiler. It's just not a direction I'm interested in going and wouldn't really create a better product. But I do really appreciate the offer!May 18, 2011 at 8:39 am #1738062
Miguel, I think you should still ask your contact at Evernew. Devin, I'm surprised you're set against an idea like this – I'm not trying to insult the hundreds of hours of thought, research, and conversations that undoubtedly went into the materials and design choices of the Boiler, and it's entirely possibly that the facts you currently have rule out an even lighter, cost-effective Boiler, but true innovation comes from seeing the possible in the impossible. I quote what you just said in your last post: "the sky's the limit"… I mean you started out making these things in your backyard and now look! Aren't you even slightly curious what the president of the company that mass-produces some of the lightest Ti products out there might have to say? That new Ti alcohol stove they have is not a simple shape like a mug or pot and you can buy those for less than $50.
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