4 Season Ultra Light Extreme Weather Shelter System

<p style=”text-align: center;”>”So I’m thinking the I-tent, with a cuben fiber vestibule, and no ground sheet…(possible carbon fiber poles, unless I am advised against this)</p>
does any one think that sounds like a bad idea?”

Mark, spending a sh!t ton of money on a custom vestibule for an I-tent seems like letting the tail wag the dog a little.

And just to be clear: you are under 6ft, right? The I tent is very cramped if your over 6ft.

Before spending a lot of money tweaking the I-tent, I’d seriously recommend spending the next season or two gaining some experience, and learning what you like and don’t like about different tent styles. Then after a season or two, take the one you like the most and tweak that. It’s entirely possible you may simply not like the I-tent at the end of the day. If anything, use the money you were going to spend on a vestibule, and take a specialized course or two on winter backpacking, or something like that.

The LIGHTEST thing one can bring on a trip, is relevant experience and know-how.  I’m simply AMAZED that folks get out on the trail, and don’t know how to tie their $10 titanium tent stake to their $500 16 ounce tent, because they don’t know a single knot.

The single wall wedge tents are very specific tools for a very specific purpose. I got my Eldorado back in the 90’s when I was out west and had easy access to the Sierra’s. Nowadays, in the Mid-Atlantic, I use it in cold/wet/snow conditions, where I know I have very limited space to pitch, and where I might only be able to plant a few stakes in.  If it ain’t those conditions, I’ll use a different tool. Being that as it may, I’ll only use it once or twice a year now, if even that.

Quick question.

Do you want a tent or a storm shelter?

The two may be the same thing or totally different depending where you are.

Half way up Everest / K-2 or in the middle of Antarctica your needs are different

Send Roger a cheque for $50k and I’m sure he’ll make you a prototype for you to test but I think you are trying to reinvent the wheel here

There’s not much that can’t be improved to some extent. A  great example is rainwear. I’ve read from so many here, that a truly comfortable and cool system that keeps you dry at the same time was impossible–nay a fool’s errand.

Well, then I design a system that I’ve found is more comfortable and cool than anything else I’ve ever tried, while weighing like a total of about 5 oz and being highly adaptable. How and why?  By thinking and designing outside the box, questioning assumptions and preconceptions, and not letting other people’s limited belief systems and perception limit me.  

No progress, no change happens without a combo of the above.  

Yo matt if you could stop patronizing me that would be cool bro. I have ample disposable income. something being “expensive” isnt a valid criticism in my case. I dont care how much it costs.

Why do you believe customizing an i-tent is going to be the end all be all of my learning experiences in regards to tents and shelters?

Who said I have to forgo spending money on a tent so that I can afford winter backpacking classes? Why do you think buying this tent means I am not going to seek instruction and training from experienced teachers? and that Im not going to try other shelters? so many assumptions

And no Im not some dumbass who isn’t going to know how to use his gear before going out and my life life possibly depending upon it. You are patronizing as hell bro

and justin w is kind of right imo, the dude posting face palms can sod off, he is simply working on ideas and collaborating in real time. brainstorming with transparency so to speak. in an effort to self correct any of his misconceived ideas with the help of other forum members, so posting star trek memes is pretty tantamount to spam at this point so stop. He may be wrong about some of his ideas, but stop trying to mock him into censoring his thoughts. new ideas are welcome in this thread as far as I recall edison whent through a lot of “facepalm worthy” designs for the lightbulb before getting it right.

and to edward the OP is no longer relevant here, as I have moved onto the obvious solution of just using two different shelters for each season , so yeah you were kinda right that I WAS trying to reinvent the wheel but that isnt exactly accurate anymore

Please do yourself a favor and search BPL threads about Bearpaw before shimmying down that rabbit hole.

Links? Cause I can only seem to find a lot of positive information about his work? What am I missing here?

edit**OK…yeah…seems like he aint the one to go with based on what I have seen now….

BPWD nightmare

Another

Video

I too have read good reports and bad… however it seems there have been more and more bad reports the last few years.

As always, up to you to consider sources and proceed accordingly.

edit: Ok you found ’em!

Hi Michael F.,

I appreciate the speaking up.

Re: the rest, nm, it’s not really worth it. I apologize to the forum for letting self get pulled into my lower nature.

“Yo matt if you could stop patronizing me that would be cool bro.”

Mark, please know that I offered you my opinion, based on my experiences over the years. While it was my “intention” to speak from a place of sincerity, I now understand that I came off as patronizing to you. I could have “owned” more of my opinion than I actually did.

I apologize for that. Not my intention, whatsoever.

Cheers,

Matt

well now I feel bad. maybe I overreacted. idk. Im sry too (Im your typical liberal softy I guess haha)

To any onlookers….I have seen several guides online now, on how to use a tarp, poncho, etc. as a vestibule for most small/medium tents by using a trekking pole and guy lines/stakes

Am I wrong to assume that the protection that the factory I-tent vestibule provides could not be achieved using a somewhat basic set up such as that.??

No worries, Friend. I thank you for speaking your truth.

(So… now is it time for a Star Trek face palm? I got mine a thread or two ago…) ;>D

BPL is full of know-it-all’s, and I suspect we’ve all learned a hellava lot from eachother – perhaps even Roger!

We all love the outdoors, wish to be out there all the time, come from different perspectives and experiences, and we simply love to dish out our know-it-all-ness in our own unique ways.

But as far as I’m concerned, many BPL’ers attempt to gain official curmudgeon status simply by the way their wisdom is administered. So, I personally try to give & take all the words with a heart-felt smile.

M

;>D

Am I wrong to assume that the protection that the factory I-tent vestibule provides could not be achieved using a somewhat basic set up such as that.??
Opinions differ here.

My experience has been that the basic pop-up design has some serious and fundamental flaws which no amount of fancy marketing can cover. The poles are just too long and bendy, and the fabric span between poles is too long as well, for stability in high wind. In addition, put a bit of snow on top and the middle collapses.

This is not a brand or model problem; it’s an engineering problem. It is compounded by the reluctance of the Asian factories to go outside their (wide) experience in sewing pop-ups.

There are also what are called geodesic domes. These look similar, but typically they are square (so 4-man), they have 5 – 6 poles cross-crossed everywhere, and the poles are threaded into the fly. Quite rugged beasts but heavy – although if you divide the weight by 4 to get the per-person weight they are not too bad. Good for expeditions with lots of people.

$50k? Hum … :-)
Irrevocable wire transfer …

Cheers

So are you saying that you wouldn’t recommend the I tent or el dorado roger? ?

Michael F,

Since you seem kinda new to all this, have you considered that for less than 5 pounds you could have a ‘hot tent’ set-up with an ULTAMID 4 (+half insert) and a titanium stove from the likes of tigoat or seek outside.  This setup has proven capabilities in most any winter settings less than true mountaineering, which seems to your end goal.  In summer leave the stove at home and use the palacial cuben mid.

I’ve always been comfy on up to 4 day ski tours in an alphamid from Oware for what it’s worth.

Also, did you ever answer Ken T.’s question about your level of experience? Helps to refine the feedback this forum is giving you…

I did answer him yes.

Ultamids look nice. I really want one. But HMG strongly recommended I dont heat or cook inside of the ultamid …You telling me that I can? Why the ultamid 4? The ultamid 2 is more of what Im looking for space wise…(4 is really big from the videos I see on youtube)

The pyramid seems perfect for resisting snow loading …but I’m not sure about storm resistance/wind resistance etc. and cuben punctures a little too easily for me to be comfortable in high wind situations…or medium to large hail

I very much like this tent but easy to puncture cuben, + questionable storm resistance worries me (and possibly condensation problems due to the cuben, though I guess heating the tent would hep that)

Many reports here and elsewhere of HMG cuben used as a hot tent (think ultralight cabin box stove w/ 7′ titanium smoke pipe when I mentioned ‘stove’ above), even in extremes like Alaska,etc.  Almost every manufacturer says no heat in a tent for legal reasons (que Roger in 3, 2, 1…) only

I’ve found the steep walls of a mid are enough to deflect hail (1/4″) without damage.

Seekoutside uses high quality silnylon in their line of rounder-footprint ‘tipi’ mids partly to mitigate against the potential down-sides of cuben in a rectangular mid. My mid is not cuben but id switch it for an ultamid without second thoughts due to their proven record in epic settings.

I really like the untamid yeah, I’m just not quite convinced of it’s storm worthiness (wind, and hail) Temps wouldnt be my concern with the ultamid ….

This just peaked my interest …
http://kovea.com/product/alpine-ultra-light-1000/

The i-tent is little more than a pop-up. Oh, big on marketing, but it is still a pop-up. The poles are too long, the fabric span between poles is too long, and the door opens directly over the groundsheet. Use it in the forested country where the winds are mild, and late in the season when the big snow-falls have finished.

The el Dorado has the same faults only worse, as it is bigger. Even more floppy.

Read our series on tunnel tents. The tech details are all explained there, in great detail. And remember: some very experienced people around the world have been working on these problems of tent design for well over 50 years. Learn from history – quite cheap!

Cheers

Compared to the alternatives weighing 6-10 pounds, instead carry a second Ultamid 4 as a backup just in case of storm failure or terminal hail. 3 pounds ish! Many dollars.

It would really be much much lighter, but hail damage is so rarely encountered, and probably falls within BPL’s “don’t pack your fears” mantra, even when gearing up for higher latitudes and elevations. Your aiming for WA (east or west of cascades) and NC winters could be fine with an Ultamid or two.

Stoves are mostly for drying gear and social warmth/attitude around evening and provide zero lasting heat while sleeping

Thoughts on this? (would obv need a fly for snow)

Stoves are mostly for drying gear and social warmth/attitude around evening
? ? ? ? ?
I use mine for cooking dinner. I use warm clothing for warmth. Then I go to sleep.

Cheers

Get some snow on that Alpine UL1000 and watch the end collapse completely. Get wind from the long end and the same will happen.

Don’t ever believe the marketing spin ! ! !

Cheers

‘Hot Tent’ stoves, Roger.  See thread above…

Also, if the OP seriously proposes that kovea tent (rogers analysis is spot on) and yet doubts the tons of published adventures done with a Ultamid, I’m out…..

Ah – wood-burning stoves for tents. OK.

Some places are a bit short on firewood.

Cheers

I’ve seen very large hail that would trash my 900 dollar ultamid in asheville several times, so it is a concern to me…even though people might laugh, and say dont pack your fears, I think it is relevant …imo…

Here is where you can tell me not to pack my fears and youd be 100 percent right. I like to talk cute girls into camping with me, and that pole in the middle kinda sucks in a way…I know that is incredibly dumb …and to be 100 percent honest I am in no way going to let that be a deal breaker