4 Season Ultra Light Extreme Weather Shelter System

Michael, I no longer have my Eldorado… sold it to a guy in AK. Also sold my Mountain Hardware Trango 2 and my Stephenson Warmlite 2 RS.

Nowadays I am using a MLD Duomid (mid and bathtub ground sheet and pole jacks weigh a bit over 2 lbs) for winter and staying below treeline and generally avoiding the heavy snow scenarios I used to relish when I were a lad.  I still love the cold and snow, but I just don’t see being out for 5-10 days in sub-zero weather any more. :^)

Stephenson… a 3lb tent that could handle a bit of weather, lol

carbon fiber poles….are those worth a damn in a storm?
That’s what I use.

no groundsheet
Yep, bad idea imho. In a storm the spindrift can get under the edge of the fly and fill your tent – unless you have good sod-cloths around the edge.

vestibule
Essential in a storm so you can have hot food. I would be very unwilling to have the full pot on the stove in with my mat and quilt and other gear.
(That was 2005 – time flies.)

Cheers

Cooking under cuben is risky, it likes to melt I hear….with proper venting it might be ok? Or just say no cuben vestibules period? The crux x1 assault uses a cuben vestibule and I have never seen a review complain about it, so maybe it can work fine?  If I could get away with using a cuben vestibule like the x1 does, I would be very happy

now onto ground cloths …I know cuben pin holes easily… so would a cuben ground cloth cut it? If having the entire ground cloth be cuben isn’t advisable, could I make my sod cloths using cuben? or is that not very much better?

Here is what I am envisioning
The Black Diamond I-Tent, with carbon fiber poles, a cuben fiber vestibule, and cuben fiber sod cloths, (titanium tent stakes? / Who makes lightest but still bomber guy lines?)

Is this going some where??

or am I doomed to 7 pounds T_T

As long as you don’t try to prime an XGK under it you’ll be okay. I’ve run alcohol and canister stoves inside Cuben tents and tarps with no problems. Adequate ventilation of course.

Closest I ever came to getting killed in a tent was running an XGK in the vestibule of the MH Trango, with the XGK’s fuel tube o-rings stiffened by the -33°F temp and therefore not doing their job. Raw fuel pooling under a roaring stove is a very bad thing. Lucky to notice it and shut it down without further incident, but it’s one of those things you don’t forget.

YIKES!

I’d assume cuben fiber sod cloths will suffice then as well?

Thinking about a Cuben vestibule for an  I tent is one thing, having someone making it is another…

I would not suggest using  CF poles under snow in a tent that has poles at a  tight radius and that needs those poles to be bent inside the tent itself.

(you need to bend them a lot more than when they are in the final position).

BTW :

“or you can drape the tent you while standing and set the poles while remaining vertical”. 

I’d like to see how that is done with an I tent or most if not all Biblers.

I would not suggest using CF poles under snow in a tent that has poles at a tight radius and that needs those poles to be bent inside the tent itself.
I have actually made a couple of dome tents where that was the normal method of pitching (on the inside). It was a STRUGGLE every time inside the tent. I was told that the view from the outside was amusing. Of course, in a storm, when the tent is not fully supported during pitching, there is a very high risk of damage.

Snow loading IS a problem for most tents. Pyramids collapse at the edges; most others collapse in the middle. Serious snow tents use internal storm guys to prevent the collapse.

Cheers

I am aware that it will be a challenge. I emailed HMG to ask if they would do it, havent heard back, they will almost certainly say no, either way.

So yeah, I’m trying to find someone now…. Which brings me to my next question, How proprietary is the vestibule design for this tent? Is it like highly unique, or would anyone with a basic knowledge of it’s dimensions, and knowledge of how a piece of equipment like a vestibule should work, etc, be able to make one for me (in theory) ?

Or do I have a matter on my hands where I need to obtain some very specific and exact dimensions/patterns for this to be possible? How universal is the design of most tent vestibules of roughly the same dimensions?

There is nothing universal in that or any other tent design apart of course people making exact copies.

So to get one custom made you would need the original or be prepared to pay for several attempts.

as a tip, when DIY people think they have 90% of the design done, it takes another 90% of the time to get the missing  10% finished.

,

Just emailed over 50 cottage industry manufacturers of ultralight backpacking gear in one huge email.

Will let you know what I find out soon.

50 emails out
10 emails back
6 explaining how it’s not possible
4 of them offering the wrong things

Bad case of cynicism there Roger …
:-)

Cheers

Bearpaw said he would be willing to do it, I just need to send him some patterns or the vestibule itself to copy …I’m working on that …unless upon seeing said designs, he says he cannot replicate it, I should be good to go.

I would not suggest using CF poles under snow in a tent that has poles at a tight radius and that needs those poles to be bent inside the tent itself.

is that because of potential injury if it breaks and becomes jagged and sharp, shrapnel etc?

I find the timing of this thread interesting, as I’ve been thinking about this very same concept myself. Both in the context of winter backpacking and prepping.

I don’t think we could use the term or label of UL to apply to it though.  I think the best you can do is use the term “reasonably light”.

I haven’t read the entire thread, just kind of quickly skimmed through.

This is what I’m planning on doing in the near future: I have a Cuben Solomid, which when I do an inverted V with poles, I find offers me plenty of space since I’m shorter than average.

I’m buying some RSBTR Membrane silpolyPU400 (1.07 oz/yd2) and to that, I’m attaching a combo of a layer of 2.5 oz Apex and a layer of Insultex (1.27 oz/yd2). In between will be a mylar space blanket. I’ll probably take some scrap pieces of Apex I already have and place them strategically on one side of the Apex and one side of the Insultex to give more air space for the space blanket (to better reflect IR).  Then that will be sewed and taped to the cuben.

For breathablity, at the peak* and the door, instead of above material, I’m going to use .9 oz/yd2 polyester taffeta as the outer layer (pretty WR and very quick drying) and then a very breathable inner layer and put some thicker Apex between it (to make up for the lack of the Insultex and space blanket material). *Actually for the peak part, the inner will likely be some kevlar fabric, and the inner door fabric will likely be 1.1 oz uncalendered polyester ripstop.

I have a small open wood stove (for cooking) that is the type that updrafts air from the bottom and directs a focused flame through the top (sort of rocket like).  I’m going to experiment with using this right under the peak and see how the smoke situation is. Most of the smoke should updraft out the peak vent (hopefully I won’t have to add a liner ala Teepee style). I’ll do it at home first in the backyard, before I take it out, out. I might have to devise a little pipe to go over it and out the tent or a liner.  Likely, the peak part will be velcroed on rather than sewn or taped.

It may be small and insulated enough that I don’t really need any kind of stove–however small it is, and maybe a couple of larger beeswax candles plus body heat would keep it plenty warm. The only reason why I would want a tiny stove in it to begin with, is to help dry things out.

Quick note, the new PU4000 coating is very high quality and very durable. It’s not the PU coating of yesteryear.  Besides it’s high level of waterproofness and durability, it’s also nice that you can use tape on that side.

I expect this modifed tent to weigh around 3 to 4 lbs, not including the little wood cooker stove.  It should allow me to bring a less warm and heavy sleep set up.  The combination of 2 waterproof layers of fabric, 1 layer of Insultex, 1 layer of 2.5 oz Apex, and one mylar space blanket should make it fairly thermally resistant. The very breathable, but well insulated peak and door areas should allow plenty of moist airflow out.  My only concern is frost/ice building up in those areas (particularly within the Apex).  A tiny woodstove would alleviate that no problem though.

(I’m also treating the outside of the tent, the cuben, to make it more slick, so snow doesn’t stick to it as much).

If bulk wasn’t an issue, I would probably just use one layer of egg crated, thin CCF foam+mylar space blanket as insulation and use velcro at the openings to connect the covering, inner fabric to the cuben, rather than bond or sew, so you could knock out any frost (and it would allow you to replace the space blanket as needed).  Plus you still have a UL tent for warm weather use if you go the velcro route.  Yes, you could have it all with some extra work. Just have to think (really) outside the box.

I haven’t gotten into the pulk scene yet, but the bulk would be fine with a pulk. If using low density foam, could get it pretty light weight, but fairly high insulation factor.

Narrow minds can only think and perceive narrowly, especially so when the heart is also shriveled up at the same time.

I would not suggest using CF poles under snow in a tent that has poles at a tight radius and that needs those poles to be bent inside the tent itself.

is that because of potential injury if it breaks and becomes jagged and sharp, shrapnel etc?
No.
When a CF pole breaks, it is a clean snap straight across the tube (in my experience). Mind you, at 3 am it makes an almighty cannon boom – it couples to the tent fabric.

Cheers

The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning to using velcro to attach “insulation panels” and using CCF and space blanket instead for the main insulation parts. That way, any frost build up can be knocked out, by unvelcroing the bottom and shaking it out. Instead of using a stove, just use a couple of beeswax candles. Much safer and could even leave one burning through the night.

It’s easily converted to non winter mode and to winter mode.

More specifically, thinking of using two layers of this 1/8th foam below. The only problem is how to create air space for the space blanket to do it’s job. Could be done in different ways, take little pieces of foam and glue them to create some free air space, or just some silicone caulk dabs here and there. Face these raised areas of each piece inward together with the crinkled up space blanket inbetween. Should give enough air space to reflect most of the IR.

Foam I’m looking at (ideally it would be lower density than 2lbs though, 1lb would be great for this purpose).
http://www.thefoamfactory.com/closedcellfoam/polyethylene-foam-roll.html

Looks like I’ll likely be pulking this coming winter.  Hopefully the snow lasts.

Hey Justin – are you talking about lining the inside of your tent with insulating foam?

Cheers

The general gist is this:

Take my MLD cuben solomid, line it with velcro around perimeter. Take UL WP fabric cut to size to match tent, with corresponding hard velcro.  To that UL fabric attach either two layers of thin (3 mm), lower density foam (2lb and under–preferably around 1lb) with space blanket in between, or one bit thicker (6mm), lower density piece and making raised surface on one side of the foam and on the UL fabric to be attached–so the space blanket has enough air space to reflect IR radiation.

Bring couple of beeswax candles for light and little extra heat. Candles plus body heat should keep the temp inside at least 25 to 30 degrees F warmer than outside.

When not using it for winter type conditions, the foam and extra UL fabric is taken off, and just  take some strips of loose hard velcro is kept attached to keep the soft velcro clean.

Best of both worlds.  12.5 oz (well, little more with added velcro), non insulated tent for warmer weather, and UL fabric+foam+space blanket+candles for cold weather use (estimated weight 4lbs or so) in combo with a pulk.

Ideally I would like to find 1.2 lb density foam for this application in thinner sheets.  I can find some 6 mm foam that fits that bill, but can’t seem to find 3mm foam sheets that fit the bill.

As mentioned, if frost builds up inside, you unvelcro the bottom part only, and tap/knock it out.

I think other than bulk, the above combo is quite doable and solves various different problems holistically. Besides winter backpacking, could come in handy for a post collapse survival situation and a nomadic lifestyle.  Sort of an uber light,  fairly insulated, small Teepee type shelter.

Obviously foam wouldn’t go over the peak vent area. Over that, I would just stuff a very breathable Apex/fabric combo sort of little pillow.

If burning the candle and/or cooking, would need at least a tiny open hole to outside at the bottom for fresh air.

Bearpaw said he would be willing to do it

Please do yourself a favor and search BPL threads about Bearpaw before shimmying down that rabbit hole.   :^/