Cuben Fiber Down Air Pad

Huzefa,

You may also have quite a market replacing Stephenson-Warmlite D.A.M. down air mattresses.

I have been on the verge of retiring my warmlite bag due to the very heavy weight of the D.A.M.

The original specs put the weight at 23 ounces. Mine began leaking due to deterioration of the urethane on the interior of the mattress ( evidently a biological agent of some type ) At the time (2005) the least expensive repair option was to re-coat the entire mattress with more urethane or whatever and now it weighs 31.1 ounces by my postal scale.

Stephenson bags are REALLY nice but that much weight in a mattress is just hard to justify.

I would love to send you my D.A.M. and let you look at replacing it. One thing to consider is that the most expensive part…..the Down; would simply be re-installed in the replacement. And it has the valves as well.

While I won't say that cost is no object; I be very interested in salvaging the utility of this very nice bag by coming up with a practical alternative to the existing heavy mattress or a lighter alternative to replacing the mattress with a new Stephenson mattress. The Stephenson replacement costs @ $150.00

I would be more that happy to send you the mattress and let you have your way with it as long as I get it or a replacement returned eventually; ( taken apart if you need to make a thorough examination or get perfect measurements ). What have I got to lose except many many ounces of weight? And you might learn a thing or two from the way it is made.

By the way: The Stephenson mattress is designed to fit into a sleeve in the bag and so it has a layer of protection on all sides. Are you using the Cuben 1.5 for the shell because of extra puncture resistance? I'd guess it's not over concerns over the stress of the weight of the person using it blowing out the seams or baffles as it would also impact the baffles if they are individually sealed and air-tight and you are using the .60 for the baffles. Maybe in the case of a Stephenson application the .60 would be OK since the bag has another layer of puncture resistance. For that matter I could send the bag botton and let you have a look at it as well.

Whattaya say? No obligations.

Like Cola, I would be interested if you could recycle the down from my Stephenson's DAM.

Any chance of a coffin shape ALA Stephenson's DAM? In other words wider at the shoulder and narrower at the feet?

See; more business already!. Just to be clear on this I'm willing to sacrifice my D.A.M. to provide you with a pattern.

It is likely Lynn's might be a different size ( there were 4 sizes in the Stephenson "quiver"

Here's a link to the Stephenson website: Warning! there is nudity! Jack Stephenson had his quirks but he was a pioneer at applying scientific principles to the design of back-packing gear. Read the link titled "vapor barrier-why? "

http://www.warmlite.com/start.htm

Aaron, I will use the corrected amount in the second prototype. My plan is to seal each tube with noseeum to allow air to move in and out without down displacement.

Tim >How can the material be patched if punctured? The pad needs to be “field maintainable”

You can use McNett Seam Grip Fabric Repair Kit.

Cola and Lynn, Thanks for the offer but I think recycling would be a waste of a good pad. Best thing to do would be to sell your DAM or give it away. Cuben fiber and adhesive cost considerably more then down, particularly when I will be buying down in bulk anyways.

>Are you using the Cuben 1.5 for the shell because of extra puncture resistance? YES.

Keep in mind, that this is a 25″ wide pad which may not be compatible with your warmlite bag. Time to get a lighter bag/quilt?

>Mummy shape? Not right now. If everybody orders different length then it can add up to a lot of work.

I am acquainted with warmlite website and vapor barrier theory.

> If everybody orders different length then it can add up to a lot of work.

What "standard" sizes will you be offering then?

>What "standard" sizes will you be offering then?

my plan is to offer custom size rectangular pads. But if you all want mummy shape pad, then decide on 1-2 standard sizes.

Wouldn't custom sizes be a pain for you to do? Each order would be different and you would never be able to keep any pads in stock because each pad is made to a custom size determined by the customer?

Personally, I would make three sizes: short, standard, and long. If you decided to make mummy shaped pads I dont think there would be a use for a short mummy so then you could just have a standard mummy and long mummy.

I don't know. I just say keep it simple and quick, have your own sizes and don't do custom sizes for now.

I'm interested. I'd probably want a 76 inch x as wide as you can make it.

You asked for color choice. Since the pad is hidden under the sleeping bag most of the time, any color is fine. If you want to keep the price down, you probably should limit to one or at the most two colors.

Dimensions depend on weight. Either 48" or 60" length, 20" wide is good for me, although I'd prefer the shorter length. 3.5" thick might be a bit too thick for many tents–I'd be bumping into the top of mine! I'd say that 2.75 to no more than 3.0 inches thick would be about right.

Let us know when you have final weights and pricing worked out! How much of an issue (cost and time) does shipping present for those of us halfway around the world from you?

Very interested. I'm all over the orange, but am fine with whatever color…

Great idea!

I am with the people who say colour of pads does not matter much, although I like orange. If you are making rucksacks from the same cuben, the colour of rucksacks matters more, not white unless you cannot get the orders.
We would want 2 mats to fit in our laser. The groundsheet which is straight on one side, tapers from the middle to both ends. 1050 in the middle probably only 930 at the ends of 1350 mats placed centrally. I have solved this with our exped short mats (1200 long 510 wide) by squeezing them together in a corset that compresses the required corners.
If you could do a double 1350 x 1000. It would really need 2 valves and independent inflation so that, with a leak, only one side deflated. Thus the tubes would go the long way. It would be wonderful if the required corners were trimmed off so that I did not have to make a corset again.
As far as depth goes I would copy exped. As long as the mats are not inflated bone hard, when you sit on them you sink in deep. Tents which have low headroom need have no more problem than with thinner mats.

Huzefa, great project!

Derek wrote:
"If you could do a double 1350 x 1000. It would really need 2 valves and independent inflation so that, with a leak, only one side deflated."

Who gets the flat side? :o)

There are a couple of other reasons why separate inflation for the two 'halves' would be a good idea. I'm a lot heavier than my lady. She would be on a rock hard surface next to me. The other advantage would be less problems waking your partner by 'bouncing' them when you roll around. Also, it could be used solo in a smaller tent.

I'd be interested in one of these small doubles.

Roger you know who gets the flat side. She says I have the metabolism to deal with the loss of insulation.
You are right about the other reasons

I got the adhesive I ordered today. I should have a prototype ready by Tuesday and then I am going for a hike to do some field testing.

Derek, I can make two 1350 x 500 pad for you. I really cant see any advantage of 1350 x 1000 over this. This will make it more versatile if you are hiking solo. Plus my backpack design uses this pad as part of pack frame.

You probably have a point there Huzefa. We can always join them with some velcro straps to make the double. Or a luxury length single with pillow. :-)

I love my Exped down 7 regular, 2.8 inches deep (no one fully inflates them and it keep me off my hips) with a R value of 5.9, but if I can get it at half the weight…that would be sweet! Like blue, but whatever is the cheapest color is fine. Is the material comfortable enough to lie on directly while using a quilt?

I'm very interested in this one. I'd love a ~72-74'' x ~20-22'' x 2.5'' or 3'' thick pad. Would a 2.5'' pad be much less warm than a 3'' or 3.5''?

The project is delayed a bit because I have got dengue fever. I am OK except for low HR/platelet count, so all I can do is bed surfing :) good news is that meanwhile I have found a way to make very thin, durable bond line that will add minimal adhesive weight. looking forward to finishing the prototype next week.

Huzefa, take care of yourself! I hope you're feeling better soon! I for one can wait for the pad, so there's no hurry. I'm really interested!

Huzefa – No rush … get as much rest as you need! Put me down as very interested – I'd likely purchse one pending the specs. How does your lifetime guarantee work?

Would a 2.5'' pad be much less warm than a 3.5''?

sheila, LESS then half the weight of Exped down 7 may be very possible with my adhesive application idea. stay tuned.

Is the material comfortable enough to lie on directly while using a quilt? Yes.

Christopher, lifetime guarantee is limited to seam bonding failure in which case the pad will be replaced free of cost.

Would a 2.5'' pad be much less warm than a 3.5''? Yes by approx 30%. There is not enough weight/cost saving incentive to manufacture 2.5" pad.

Thanks for the reply Huzefa. I'm still very interested in a ~20 x 72 x 3.5'' pad. I look forward to further developements, and hopefully, being able to order one.

This sounds like a great idea. I was looking at buying an exped mat like others have and am glad I found this. 22-25" wide and about 72 long would be perfect.

What is the price looking like at this point? I am interested in getting one that is 22-25" wide and 76" long, depending on the price…