Cuben Fiber Down Air Pad

Looks like the idea shows promise… what do you estimate the final weight and r-value would be including the pump? are you going to start a website up like many others have done or just work exclusively through forums? i like the pack idea too. both sound cool. if we could get some more pictures and information when the actual manufactured product is ready that'd be cool.

Neat product….it looks extremely warm. Any chance of getting one more aimed at 3 season use? Something about 1/2 as thick with 1/2 the down could be an extremely compelling product. It should be well under the weight and price of a NeoAir as long as the pump isn't too heavy.

I wonder if you could make these things self inflatable so no pump is needed? The cuben is pretty darn light, so if you allowed the down time to loft up and then just sealed the pad it might be sufficiently soft. It would never be rock hard, but as long as you aren't bottoming out it should be good enough.

Hey guys.

>what do you estimate the final weight and r-value would be including the pump?

Final weight will depend on the size of the pad. My estimate is that a 750 cubic inch stuff sack/pump will weight .5oz and 65" pad will weight about 12-13oz. Based on similar pads I expect R value for 3.5 inch pad to be about 9.

>are you going to start a website up like many others have done or just work exclusively through forums
I will be starting a website soon. I will post it when it is ready.

>Any chance of getting one more aimed at 3 season use? Something about 1/2 as thick with 1/2 the down could be an extremely compelling product. It should be well under the weight and price of a NeoAir as long as the pump isn't too heavy.

Good idea. What width would you like? I think either 2" or 2.5" should be good. I can make a custom 3 seoson pad. You can expect significant reduction in packing size but not in weight. Price will remain the same for the first batch.

The Cuben fiber fabric itself cost $20+/yd and bonding is pretty labour intensive process compared to automated welding technology used in neo air and other pads. This is a very special pricing exclusively for BPL members. Expect to pay upto 50% more from the next batch.

>I wonder if you could make these things self inflatable so no pump is needed? The cuben is pretty darn light, so if you allowed the down time to loft up and then just sealed the pad it might be sufficiently soft. It would never be rock hard, but as long as you aren't bottoming out it should be good enough.

I have modified this prototype to try some ideas. What I found was that it takes a lot of time self inflate. When you are tired after a tough day, last thing you want is to do is stand while waiting for the pad to self inflate. I expect a 750cu in stuff sack/pump to weight about 0.5oz and you can have inflated pad in minutes.

Keep questions/comments coming.

I think you will have to use some kind of pump because otherwise the down will get wet over time, and through the compression after packing they will clump. Does a cuben pack sack works well to pump it up and can I use every cuben pack sack for this?

How long did you test your prototype, on how many trips?

Do you ship to europe?

Nice work Huzefa, that thing looks awesome…I'm interested but like BF (above) would need to know some testing results first. I know it wouldn't be in your best interest as you are selling them, but I would have loved to see a MYOG article on this.

Okay Huzefa,

It's time to get my nerd calculator out as I will take an order from you.

First of all 800 fill down is really 800+ fill down and usually averages around 840 fill.

You're square inch tube for a 63" length is 605 square inches so you are over-filling the tubes.
To fill the tubes as prescribed, it would only take .75 ounces for each tube.

If you are using only 7 tubes, then your 8 ounces of down will actually have 1.15 ounces in each tube.

What I will order from you, if you are willing is an 8 tube width, (23.5") and 40" length with .6 ounces of down in each tube.

This will come out to 13 ounces.
Even less with the lighter tape!!!
Also what are the differences in weight between the 2 tapes?

So my question to you is if I am saving you almost 2 ounces of down, will that make up for the extra tube?
So basically put, can I still get it at the 2.5 X 40" = $100.

If so, then sign me up for an order.
That's $100 for a (what will be) a sub 13 ounce pad with some serious R-Factor!

>can I use every cuben pack sack for this?

No. Not atleast without some modification. It will be similar to BA Pumphouse but lighter. Dry bag style closer will add weight. I will decide later whether to offer just a light pump or multi use dry bag/pump depending on the demand. So let me know what you guys want.

>Testing
I havent had the opportunity to test it outside but I have been testing it at home. Here is what I found:

>1.5oz cuben fiber is very durable and air tight.
>The bonding stays good when pad is under inflated.
>Full inflation and dynamic load caused some peeling ie. adhesive failure. The material in intact.

I am going to make a second prototype with a different adhesive and will do further testing on it. I have decided to stick with 1.5oz cuben for shell and use 0.6oz cuben for baffle for best of durability and light weight. It will also be wider at 22″ because the long side seam will be in overlap. I should have a prototype ready in 2-3 weeks.

May be I should have finished all the further prototyping/ testing and then made this announced. But trust me, I dont intend to sell have non reliable stuff. Unless I am completely satisfied with the second prototype I wont be accepting any preorders.

>Do you ship to europe?
I will ship worldwide.

>MYOG article
I will think about it.

____________________

Hey Aaron, cuben fiber comes in 50″ width, as you surely know. How do you expect a 23.5″ pad? The final version will be about 22″ wide (standard). Let me know if that will work for you.

I presume you need to get orders lined up. I think I could take one.

Please let me know as you get closer to a final version. I'd also be interested in one.

This pad sounds really interesting. Being short, and not a winter camper, I'd prefer a 48 inch long pad, 2.5" to 3.0" thick, with a bit less down. I suspect that a pad of these dimensions would be fairly close to the weight of a Thermarest NeoAir and a lot warmer.

I have a Big Agnes Pumphouse–it works great as a pad pump but is a complete failure as a dry bag (water leaks through the fabric pores) or as an inflatable pillow (goes flat in less than an hour). A similar item made of Cuben would solve this problem as well as being lighter, so it should work just fine as a dry bag or an inflatable pillow–multiple use!

EDIT: Can you make something like the BA Pumphouse without infringing on their patent?

I am getting many PM and email inquiries. I really appreciate the interest and support. I will let you know when the 2nd prototype is ready for further testing. Thanks for your patience.

I may need about 20-25 preorders to buy material in bulk and offer reasonable pricing.

Wow, I'm removing my initial post, because I apparently can't read very well.. Thanks for the information Huzefa.

That being said, I used the same adhesive for a small prototype and also found that loading caused peel, I'd be interested to know what you allowed for curing time before testing. One poster stated that bond strength should be at it's maximum after a week. Also whether you've finally solved this problem and maybe how.

Gary, I have sent you a PM.

Hi all, I got an email from CubicTech saying that standard width for future production run will be in 54". That means a wider pad!

The minimum production run for a colored product is 99m. I looking for feedback on the color for sleeping pads and backpacks.

What color would you like to see?

Above image is from the Cubic Tech website. I think they can do any color. Keep in mind that only the fiber is colored, the film is clear. This heavier 1.5oz weight is not as much see through as the lighter weight but colored product will not make a significant difference here. Also see pics in the original post.

Do you prefer natural, earth tones or bright color for higher visibility. Bright color can be cheery. Or I can go with standard white and not worry about the large min. order.

May be post love/hate or color preference list to guide me.

Thanks!

I personally like the white, and the notion that white would not require you to tie up capital in a large order is attractive.

I'd be interested in a pad pre-order. Keep me posted. My vote for color would definitely be a warm Orange for a warm pad.

Thanks for undertaking this endeavor!

My Exped downmat's are getting nervous. Please keep me updated on the process.

i would buy one after some good testing
for sure

orange sounds good. I need more feedback on color choice. I would need like 50+ preorder to pay for custom color cuben production run. Other wise for first production I will go with white and in future I can offer color pads.

I got some few ml of sample adhesive from loctite and initial testing shows exceptional peel strength resulting in substrate failure. I am still waiting for 100ml order to make the second prototype. It could take another week.

Hi Huzefa,
are you keeping the down from being lost through the valve and from moving between tubes with foam, like exped. I never understood why exped mats had foam both ends.
Did you dismiss the horizontal tube layout, like Neoair that would give more sideways stability.
Would you make short ones at 1000mm? could you fit 2 together to make a short double 1000 x about 1200?

Derek, down clogs up the valve and there is no leakage unless you pull some out. I can cover up the valve on the inner side with noseeum, so down cant be pulled out but I am not sure it is needed. I didnt see much movement between tubes. I dont think warmlite uses foam at the ends either and it has been tested sufficiently.

>Did you dismiss the horizontal tube layout, like Neoair that would give more sideways stability.

It would take a lot more manual work. Neoair is made in a machine.

>Would you make short ones at 1000mm? could you fit 2 together to make a short double 1000 x about 1200?

I can make 1000X1350 pad with minimal wastage of fabric. But I can make 1000X1200 if you want that size.

Huzefa,
Why do you need another color option?
Anything is better than white. The white would show dirt so easly. Orange sounds good enough.

I am still looking to see if the corected amount of down could be placed in the tubes before I honestly say yes to a pre-order. You have them almost 50% over-stuffed for the displacement.

Huzefa, I too am following this with interest.
How can the material be patched if punctured? The pad needs to be "field maintainable".

Having seen the comments on thickness I have to agree that no more than 2.5" would work best for me personally.

And about 60" in length.

I don't care about the color.

I was about to put down the money for an Exped Downmat when I found this topic. I too am very interested in this and will be checking back for an update.