Carrying Your Sh*t

Drew,
How many days will you be hiking? Quantity is an important variable.

I am going out for 5 days! is kitty litter or baking soda a good thing to bring?

drew

Why not get a Wag Bag like they use up to Whitney? They have chemicals that will neutralize the odor and come it double bags.

moved to proper post

I have thought of a wag bag, but i have no experience using them and was concerned with their durability over five days. I also wasn't sure if they are reusable. do you need one for every poo poo?

@ Ali… yeah i didnt think of that at all. i guess thats why it would be nice to have something harder to get into barrier (i.e. plastic tubing)

Drew, I got sidetracked from the toilet paper post. I dont think you will see any bears in Paria. I moved it to the proper post. For Paria I would stick to wag bags. I use these on my boat when in port since I use a bucket for a toilet. They work great. Ali

PCV pipe has been used by climbers on big walls for years. Build a Poop Tube
It ain’t light weight, but it’s not going to leak or break.

Wag bags work great for their intended purpose. I was just at Paria/Buckskin a couple weeks ago and used one. They are good for more than one use and the double bagging makes it reliable and durable. I ended up using a ditty bag to store it externally and hang it with a mini biner onto my backpack. I've also stored them internally with no incidents.

Andrew,

how many bags would you take on a 5 day trip? i know that there are definitely factors that weigh into this question, but is one too few/3 too many?

You can find some solutions here: http://www.whennaturecalls.com/

They also have a Privacy tent, in case you're not going alone. Concerning the number of bags, I would go with three, better carry one too much than one too less.

I'd agree with the other post that 3 sounds about right for 5 days. That gives you a margin for error, and they don't really weigh that much (empty that is!). They are pretty large bags though, and you would probably be fine with 2. The, uh, quantity of material probably varies a lot with the individual. Personally, I stick with a high fiber diet and prefer to carry it on the outside rather than the inside. :-) You can get them at the ranger station up there, and I have also purchased them at REI.

You realize you've just opened up a whole new area of lightweight tinkering… You can now weigh your waste at the end of your trip and compare it to your food weight at the start of the trip. Subtract solid waste weight from initial food weight, and you can measure how much food weight your body didn't metabolize. I see a whole new section on BPL in techniques for lowering the ratio of initial food weight to final solid waste weight.

Totally unscientific, I know, but I couldn't resist.

> techniques for lowering the ratio of initial food weight to final solid waste weight.

At the risk of being labeled pedantic, that should be 'INCREASING the ratio'
:-)

Cheers

There's probably a viewpoint from the above discussion for taking higher energy density foods that are likely to be more completely assimilated by the body and disposed of as heat. I doubt that's a very healthy option though. I imagine that ultra marathoners routinely practice this by packing a bunch of Gu or other energy gels (and consequently don't see much come out the other side).

I've hiked Paria for a week-long trip two years ago.

Personally I used the big and regular coffee bags that I generate with my taste for good coffee. Worked great and I WISH to h311 people camping in Buckskin Gulch, just off Paria, would carry our their p00p. That place STINKS and they leave T.P. everywhere. AAAaaaarrrrggghhh!

The BLM was "supposedly" going to helcopter in Porta Johns for Buckskin Gulch and one other Paria location but Bush took a lot of their budget for "the war effort". NICE!

BTW, I did carry a bit of lye powder in another (small) coffee bag to put in the pooh bags to reduce any odor. Works.

Eric
BTW, that's me standing in the Paria dry river bed in this post.

Yeah, the problem with this reasoning is that you can get all of your 'calorie needs' from sugar cubes, olive oil, and TVP. Yet this just doesn't work. Something about completely stopping the need for bowel movements that sounds unhealthy and nauseating. On the other hand, there is plenty of fiber in most hiking areas, so if one supplemented the sugar cubes and olive oil with some inedible wild grasses for bulk… Okay, okay, I get it. Not gonna happen.

Still, food weight is by far the heaviest initial pack weight, so I am surprised it is not discussed with more frequency and scrutiny around here. Perhaps it is because our diet preferences seem to be more varied than our shelter choices…

"Still, food weight is by far the heaviest initial pack weight"
"so I am surprised it is not discussed with more frequency and scrutiny around here."

Hi John,
I totally agree with your first statement. As for the second, there have been a couple of threads on the topic, but no concensus reached. As you speculated, diet preferences are infinitely varied; All the way from 5 star gourmet to spartan fair, both hot and cold; 1# 4 oz to 2 plus pounds/day, not including booze and weed. Lots of room to lighten the load here, a vastly underappreciated aspect of UL backpacking, IMO.

Id go poo tube, very cheap, but its important to know how many times you go in 5 days, and how that will change when your out there. I find in trips like and when its like this or fr fr fr freezing out I'm more spaced out which makes it manageable.

"Still, food weight is by far the heaviest initial pack weight"
"so I am surprised it is not discussed with more frequency and scrutiny around here."
…
"Lots of room to lighten the load here" …

I wonder about that … there is certainly lots of room for variety, but the basic underlying weight data is pretty constant — carbs are a fixed number of calories per ounce, as are fats and protein. That's all you have to work with.

It seems to me that, for any given number of required calories, you can calculate pure carbs for the required calories and you will have the maximum food weight; calculate pure fat and you'll have the minimum weight. The best you can do is to get as close to the light end as you can while still being palatable and meeting any other needs (protein replacement, fiber, quick energy, …).

— MV

"I wonder about that … there is certainly lots of room for variety, but the basic underlying weight data is pretty constant — carbs are a fixed number of calories per ounce, as are fats and protein. That's all you have to work with.

It seems to me that, for any given number of required calories, you can calculate pure carbs for the required calories and you will have the maximum food weight; calculate pure fat and you'll have the minimum weight. The best you can do is to get as close to the light end as you can while still being palatable and meeting any other needs (protein replacement, fiber, quick energy, …)."

Hi Bob,
Precisely. The impression I get from the threads on food has been that the importance of getting as close to the light end as possible is often overlooked in favor of concentrating on reducing gear weight, carrying gourmet or semi gourmet food that requires more fuel(think extra weight) to prepare, and possibly overestimating the required calories/day. Mike McClelland maintains that 1# 5 oz food/day is adequate for most people, and I agree with the caveat that calories do vary with body weight and individual metabolism to some degree. I go in with 1# 4 oz/day, but I weigh only 137# and add 3-4# of extra fat in the weeks before a long trip to cover the calorie deficit. My basic point is that, if one wants to lighten their load as much as possible, they would do well to pay as much attention to food as they do to gear. The possible savings are considerable. For example, I used to take 1.5#/day. On a 10 day trip that works out to an extra 2.5# that I no longer carry. Eye popping numbers for a gram weenie.

> if one wants to lighten their load as much as possible, they would do well to pay as
> much attention to food as they do to gear. The possible savings are considerable.

I grant the basic point (of course), but if you take inadequate food just to make your pack UL, you may spend the trip starving and come back weakened and miserable. Where's the fun in that? Me, I go walking for fun.

Cheers

I would happily carry an extra 2.5 pounds over the course of a 10 day trip if it was the difference between eating well and eating adequately.

Is it just me, or does no one else here spend much of their time on the trail thinking about what they are going to eat at night, or when they get home? I wander along imagining all sorts of delights (most of which I'm not currently carrying). Not so much on short trips, but when I've been out there for a couple of days then my gourmet-food-longing starts to kick in!

EDIT: I must admit though, Tom, you're right about the considerable weight savings that can be had. Although I'm not prepared to carry less food or skimp on certain ingredients, there are still plenty of ways to cut down the weight. I haven't got myself a dehydrator yet but am considering it… the only thing that's putting me off is that I've read it can make your whole house smell of whatever it is you're drying out. Not such a good idea in our small apartment!

I watch food weight, dehydrate, and use freeze dried stuff. But I bring cheese, nuts, Snickers, salami, and other stuff. I am sure you could get down to a pound a day if you want to drink protein and energy shakes, but I enjoy eating a really good meal. The psychological benefit and joy I get from cooking up a super tasty meal at the end of a long day is phenomenal.

Sure, calories are what move us forward, but eating has been about more than just sustenance since humans figured out how to make fire and cook. There is a reason we eat good food at home.

1.75 pounds per day is my average.

Tip… if you do food drops, put in some fresh fruit or other heavy but yummy items that will last until you get there, but that you can eat on the spot. Talk about looking forward to something!

"I grant the basic point (of course), but if you take inadequate food just to make your pack UL, you may spend the trip starving and come back weakened and miserable. Where's the fun in that? Me, I go walking for fun."

Who said anything about taking inadequate food, Roger? The whole point of the exercise is to get the amount of food carried down to the minimum adequate for a safe, happy, heathy trip. I don't come back weakened or miserable and, if I weren't having a good time I wouldn't go walking either. That said, perhaps it would benefit the discussion to clarify what we mean by adequate. For me it means what is necessary to meet my energy and tissue repair needs in a minimally palatable manner, with an all important HOT drink at the beginning and end of the day. I love a fine meal as well as anybody here, but that is not something I feel compelled to bring with me into the mountains. I go for other reasons. But, oh, how I savor a gourmet meal upon my return! For others, that is not the case and I respect their choice. I was merely trying to point out that careful menu planning is an often overlooked way to achieve significant weight savings when trying to go UL.