Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Pads

You're stating its good points David. I'm not disagreeing with you.:)

> "Why does it cost 3 or 4 times more than a Clearview pad though? :)"

Slice it open and you will see.

"You're stating its good points David. I'm not disagreeing with you.:)"

Because there is nothing on the market that hits the same points. When a competitor comes along I'm sure price will drop.

I'm also sure that manufacturing the neoair interior baffles is more expensive than the clearview which just needs a few weld points which can be done from the outside.

I'll also agree that CD has hyped the neoair. This doesn't necessarily mean they have made distorted claims just that they've done a very effective job of building demand.

nm

OK. Everyone is happy. It's just me. ;)

nm

"I don't know Mike – you look pretty happy in your avatar."

That's because i've just ran out the store with 8 NeoAirs stuffed in my bucket/hat. That old policeman will never catch me! :)

Forgive me if it's already in this thread, but just how many does CD expect to sell? Will they even make much profit off of the endeavor?

nm

"I bought one prior to a trip last fall and it blew a leak within 20 minutes of using it. I was at 11K feet base camp and a little chilly those two nights. I did bring a GG sitpad (for sitting) and ended up sleeping on it and my pack."

There are two reasons I don't use air mattresses, one is I almost never sleep out above 32 degrees and so they are not warm enough and this problem with punctures and then no pad at all. Even with Prolites I have been "let down".

My new current most comfortable, warm and lightweight set up is a cut down 36" Ridgerest under a new Prolite 36" XS. 4.8 R value, 1.625" thick, 14 oz. and very comfortable and durable. When you let out just enough air for hip and shoulder relief it is awesome. I do a lot of winter desert trips with many camps on rock and it is the most comfortable nights sleep these 52 year old side sleeping bones have ever had. If I spring a leak I still have pretty good padding anyway.

Alex, I use a similar set up. Though the NeoAir looks interesting, I'm already getting a good night's sleep with a Montbell 90 and cut-down 3/8" thinlite.

Do those who have used the Neoair in cold conditions feel its stated R-factor is correct. The reason I ask is it seems pretty high for the weight when compared to other pads. Per the ounce it seems on par with a down air mattress.

Warmth was found by multiplying the weight and length and dividing that by the weight.

Weight Length R Warmth
NeoAir Short 9.1 47 2.5 12.91
Medium 13 66 2.5 12.69
Long 14.8 72 2.5 12.16
Zrest Short 10 51 2.2 11.22
Long 14 72 2.2 11.31
Prolite4 Short 17 47 3.8 10.51
Long 24 72 3.8 11.4
Prolite3 Short 11 47 2.2 9.4
Long 16 72 2.2 9.9
Nightlite Short 3.8 29 2.2 16.79
Long 12.4 76 2.2 13.48
Sitpad 1.4 10 2.2 15.71
ExpedDAM Short 23.5 47 5.9 11.8
Long 31.9 70 5.9 12.95

I've had my neoair small down to 36 degrees with a quilt, all under an open myog original tarptent, along a river in the open with a breeze. It insulated better than my zrest, and I was toasty warm and sweating with a golite ultra 20 quilt strapped to the pad and wearing no warming layers except my boxers. When my feet got cold (which was when my jam2 went out from under my feet along the sil floor), I curled up on the neoair and was back to sweating to death. The radiation of heat was very evident when I was on the pad. My quilt makes more noise than the pad did. The only time I really got the pad to make enough noise to really hear over the quilt and river was when I was shifting from stomach to back and it was only a quick and small amount of sound.

I think the claimed R value for the NeoAir is approximately correct. I've found it slightly warmer than the Prolite 3. On frozen ground the NeoAir was adequate, on snow I could feel the cold (as expected) and put a RidgeRest under that.

This is while lying down with an even distribution of pressure. I found that if I lent on one elbow this compressed the pad and I could feel the cold coming through at that point.

I would agree that the R value is about right at 2.5. I was fairly comfortable at 5c/40f but I think that much lower would not be.

Another stab at the BA IAC, no way Jose that thing is 4.1. Maybe a 1.4 I say!

Does anyone know why Cascade Designs states that a NeoAir (R-Value 2.5) combined with a Z-Lite (2.2 R-Value) underneath results only in a total R-Value of 3.8?

I've seen the R-Value discussions in the past, but I thought the end conclusion was that when combining two pads the resulting R-Value is usually at least cumulative….Which is not the case here. Perhaps I'm not understanding the past discussions properly.

The science are right. Perhaps even conservative by not considering the air gap between parts.

Can you provide the CD source for your consternation?

Haha…Cascade Designs states on the "Pro Tips" insert that came with the mattress:

"To extend your NeoAir mattress into a 4-Season system, put a Z-Lite mattress underneath for a combined R-value of 3.8"

Send an email to CD.

Customer Service – Kirra ? – has been great on answering all kinds of questions lately.

nm

Interesting – After reading the thread I believe you are referencing I believe the conclusion was that combining two pads makes the resulting R-Value slightly more than the two individual R-Values added together.

It's true that if you combine two pads in a sensible way you should get roughly the combined R value (and a little bit more for any air gap).

However, in the case of putting an air mattress on top of a foam mattress I don't think this holds true… the thin foam layer should be *on top* of the air mattress for maximum effect. When the zlite is underneath you are not getting full value because there is still a significant chilling effect from air on the exposed sides of the neoair.

But that begs the question as to why CD is recommending people put the neoair on top. I suspect it's because that is the way they think most people will use it… it seems more "sensible" to put the zlite underneath right?

That's my take on it. I would be very interested to hear Richard's opinion. I may have it all wrong. ;-)

The one reason I might put the NeoAir on top (and the Z Lite underneath) is to make it more puncture resistant.

I haven't gotten a NeoAir (yet),   :)   but my Prolite 3 short has already been punctured a couple of times. I bought a GG ThinLight 1/8" pad (2 oz. weight) that I place under my Prolite in hopes of precluding further punctures. So far so good.

There is a "radiant barrier" in the top layer (aluminized Mylar?), from which they claim to get an additional R of 0.50.

However, I believe radiant barriers need a standoff in order to be effective.

So, pick your physics and make your choice.

Just camped last night at 40 degrees with a NeoAir, MegaLite used as a quilt, and a lot of wind/rain in a Lunar Duo (high humidity). I was totally comfortable with no base layers. Side sleeper. No leakage what-so-ever. Love it!