Sub 1 lb. Intellectual Exercise

JG said: #2 You will not need rain gear in june just get wet you won't melt. Plus it cools you off

Last August in Smokies during a day hike it started pouring. Although I had a poncho, I did not use it. It did cool me off. Only a few times I felt a bit of a chill when I slowed down where water was rushing over the trail. At night it would have been a different story, but I really enjoyed walking in the rain like that. The few other hikers out on the trail were wearing ponchos or rain jacket and pants. A couple gave me a look like: you idiot, where's your rain gear. My unspoken reply: I'm sure you're soaking in your sweat : )

BILL,
Your pics and ideas are great. I think you can do. Last night I saw the end of Astronaut Farmer. I see a movie in your future.

^^^well the smokies are a little different in that it MIGHT get cold during the day in the summer and it always seems to be raining there. I still would not bring rain gear though a poncho or poncho tarp would be an option.

Bill, are you decided on hammock/ tarp?

If not I would like to suggest a sleeveless bivanorak made of propore/silnylon (modify a driduck poncho). You can zip up the arm holes and adjust the lenght depending on the activity. Since you are wearing it, weight=0.

I havent reached the stage yet where I stop caring about elegance.

You guys are INSANE!!-. but very, very resourceful, smart too.

Sub 1 lb. Intellectual Exercise – Working List –

"Cuben Bill and the Crystal Gear List"

1. – PACK – SHELTER – SLEEPING

1-a. Pack
1-a-1. MYOG – Cuben Pack – 1.5 oz (maybe lighter – Final weight = Final size necessary)

1-b. Shelter
1-b-1. MYOG – Cuben Poncho / Tarp – 5.45 – worn so weight = 0.
1-b-2. MYOG – Hybrid Hammock Tarp / Poncho – 2 oz -under development

1-c. Sleeping
1-c-1. MYOG – Cuben Hammock – 4.67 oz – worn so weight = 0.
1-c-2. MYOG – Bug System – (under development)

Note: This is my first attempt at folding these items so I can wear them. I have several ideas that should make them look a bit better. It is about 80 F and sunny here today. I am going to take a walk sometime this afternoon and see if I get to hot. If I am to hot I might have to try "commando" and see if that is any cooler.

Section 1 – working total to date – 1.5 ounces
============================

2. – CLOTHING WORN – Does not count toward 1 pound goal.
2-a-1. Patagonia Silk Boxers. – 3.95 oz
2-a-2. Wright-Socks – 1.7 oz
2-a-3. Tilley Hat w/attached bug net- LT6 – 3.6 oz
2-a-4. Trail Runners – TNF – 28 oz
2-a-5. MYOG Gaiters – under-development
2-a-6. MYOG Silk Vest – 0.63 oz
2-a-7. Sun Glasses – 2.9 oz
2-a-8. MYOG Trekking Poles (3.67 oz x 2 =7.35 ox)

Section 2 Weight Total – Weight of items worn does not count toward 1 pound goal.

3. CLOTHING PACKED – In Pack
3-a-1. Sahalie Ultralight Tights – 1.6 oz
3-a-2. MYOG Cuben Rain Pants – 1.2 oz
3-a-3. MYOG Cuben Rain Mitts – 0.37 oz
3-a-4. MYOG Cuben Rain Booties – 0.23 oz
3-a-5. MYOG Pertex Quantum Vest. – 1 oz.
3-a-6. MYOG – Insulated Vest – 3.38 oz

Section 3 – total weight – 7.78 oz.

4 – COOKING AND HYDRATION SYSTEMS – In Pack / Under Construction

4-a-1. 12 oz Soda Can – mix and drink liquid food. – 0.423 oz
4-a-2. MYOG – Long Handle Ti Spoon – 0.28 oz
4-a-3. Platy 2 Reservoir (2L) 1.13 x 2 = 2.26 oz
4-a-4. Water Treatment – Klear Water ? in micro bottle – 0.05 oz

Section 4. – working total to date – 3.01

5 – MISCELLANY – In Pack

5-a-1. LED – Mirco – 0.2 oz
5-a-2. Deet – container weight only counts –
5-a-3. Soap – Tooth Paste etc – Dr. Bonner's – container weight only counts –
5-a-4. First Aid/Blister Kit – 1 oz – Diet ???
5-a-5. MYOG Ti Potty Trowel – 0.31 oz
5-a-6. Nalgene Waterproof Pen – 0.3 oz
5-a-7. Fire Starter Kit – 1.1 oz – Diet ???

Section 5 weight total 2.9 oz.

Total weight that counts toward is equal to 15.3 ounces if my math is correct.

===============================
TOTAL WEIGHT in PACK

TOTAL WEIGHT WORN or CARRIED:
TOTAL SKIN-OUT WEIGHT – Less Consumables (Food, Fuel, and Water, etc)

6 – CONSUMABLES (Medicine, Food, Fuel, Water, etc) (We Decide – A small group of Emergency items might also go here but with a low Max weight limit. What are your thoughts??? )

Hi Huzefa,

If I wear the hammock someway so its weight does not count toward the 1 pound then I can sleep in the hammock at night. This saves the weight of some type of sleeping pad, a ground cloth and lets me get to Sub 1 pound. I also really like sleeping in a hammock and not on the ground.

I have some Propore yardage, it is to heavy. The lightest version of Propore I have is 2.39 ounce a square yard. This is much heavier then any thing I use.

You can't get as light as I want to go if you worry about the fashion police.

Bill, preferences…

But it is possible reach sub 1 pound goal with a bivanorak.

>3-a-1. Sahalie Ultralight Tights – 1.6 oz
3-a-2. MYOG Cuben Rain Pants – 1.2 oz
3-a-3. MYOG Cuben Rain Mitts – 0.37 oz
3-a-4. MYOG Cuben Rain Booties – 0.23 oz
3-a-5. MYOG Pertex Quantum Vest. – 1 oz.

I personally wouldnt carry any of this with a propore bivanorak for 60F. Instead the weight can be invested in a poly air pad and a groudsheet.

I can be tapered like BMW torsolite to further cut some weight.

I really think you guys are over thinking this whole thing. When I was a kid growing up in north GA I would take off into the woods for 2 or 3 days with nothing more than some hot dogs a blanket and a REALLY small pup tent. No pack pad or rain gear. In fact I have been camping/backpacking in the tri state area all my life and never owned a sleeping pad until 2001 (I'm 31) You really don't need it unless it is cold.

Bill are you planning on hiking with all that cuben wrapped around you all the time, even when it is 100 degrees f? I would be miserable.

Of course we're over thinking it some … that's the point of the exercise!

To exercise our brains.

You could go the easy route, emergency bivy for a bag, emergency blanket with straping tape for a tarp, emergency poncho for raingear.

Where would the fun be in that?

^^I vote for just the emergency bivy and a cuben mailbag with food. Who's up for sub 8 oz?

Hi Mark,

You hit it right on the head "To exercise our brains".

Now that I am under 1 pound with one list I want to go back and think more about some of Huzefa's ideas. I need to see some drawings or something to visualize some of the things he is suggesting.

Doing this Sub 1 lb. Exercise has me thinking about what a "Killer" Sub 2 pound gear list I could come up. With the Sub 1 list bumped to Sub 2, I could carry the Hammock and Tarp in the pack if I wanted to, add my Digital Camera and a few other things and turn it into a AT Thru-Hike gear list.

As for the question about wearing the Cuben Hammock in 100 degree temperatures time will tell. You remember that I also have a very nice light "Silk" hammock. Wearing the Hammock, what ever the material is the goal with the Sub 1 pound Hike.

I walked in the sun at 85 degrees F yesterday. I was out for 45 minutes and wore a cotton T-shirt under the Hammock. I don't think I was much warmer with the Cuben Hammock around me then if I had been only in my T-shirt. I had a bit of a breeze and will do a test walk today without the T-shirt and with the Hammock over one shoulder instead of both shoulders like yesterday. I should look more like I am wearing a Toga I think. If you notice in the picture I also was wearing a pack frame that is closed in on the back.

>will do a test walk today without the T-shirt and with the Hammock over one shoulder instead of both shoulders like yesterday.

pics? :)

Bill, what purpose is the hammock serving when worn one shoulder?

I think we need to decide what we can include in 'CLOTHING WORN'.
Is something that is NOT in or on the backpack 'CLOTHING WORN'?
What about pockets? Is anything in pockets included in 'CLOTHING WORN'?
what about waisbelt? Is anything clipped on to waistbelt 'CLOTHING WORN'?

How do you justify a piece of gear as 'CLOTHING WORN' which doesnt really serve any purpose while wearing?

I have been thinking hard about sleeping pad. I think I will let Poly air pad pass for a durable closed cell torso pad. It will be hard for PAP + groundsheet to beat closed cell pad in weight and warmth. I have no problem sleeping on hard ground. Closed cell foam can be cut into sections one as pack frame and the rest outside the pack to protect the Cuben backpack.

I'm sorta against the idea of extending the bounds of what can be considered "worn items" for this intellectual exercise. If you're only wearing an item for the sake of lessening packweight, and not for any functionality of its own, I think that's getting a little too impractical. By the same logic you could tape toiletries to your shirt and reduce the weight even more.
However, if you're wearing a cuben hammock loincloth _instead_ of 'normal' clothing, then that would represent a functional clothing item.

Maybe there's a way of having that hammock convert into a usable pack rather than into clothing?

I understand this thread sounds extreme to many readers, but this is the only place we have to brainstorm. Our discussion might end up fruitless, but it might also uncover some new possibilities and new forms of gear. I really, really want to go on a sub-1 lb. hike later this summer, and it's great to have like-minded people to talk about it with. It's an exciting mental and physical challenge.

Hi Huzefa,

Have you ever seen anyone wearing a Scottish Kilt?

For several years I have been playing with a way to make and use a
Great Kilt" do several different things for backpacking. Wearing the Hammock over one shoulder goes back to the way you normally would see a Great Kilt worn.

There are more or less two types of Kilts. The "skirt" type that is only a "skirt". Then there is what is called the "Great Kilt". The material necessary is based a little on the size of the person wearing it. Normal amount of fabric can be up to 9 yards long. My Great Kilt was about 6 yards long by 53" wide. I have made two great kilts and several of the "skirt" type kilts. Somewhere on a Thread here is some information about the Kilt.

One of the reasons I would like to do a long Sub 1 pound hike is to demonstrate to other hikers that you can go that low and not be crazy or a danger to yourself. I lot of hikers should recognize the Hammock as part of a Kilt. For sure when I am wearing the tarp like the "skirt" kilt.

For the part of your comment asking about "Worn vs Packed". I have to wear something as I can't go naked. So I wear something on my upper body and something on my lower body. Same as shoes and socks. What you can't do is fill up your pockets with stuff and call it worn. As an example if I wanted to carry something in my pockets like a knife or my camera so I could get to it easy, it still counts as Pack weight. You are still carrying it and not wearing it. If it is cold and I need to wear an insulated garment all day it counts as worn – not packed. It sort of boils down to the question of normal wear vs not normal wear.

If it is in your pocket you are carrying it not wearing it.

If it is clipped to your waist-belt you are carrying it not wearing it.

If I was in big bear country I might carry a bear spray clipped on my pack straps. I might count that as carried, not packed as it would be an important self-protection item.

Others may have some or the same ideas on the Wear vs Carry question – comments?

Here's what I'd propose: if an item is transported more functionally and comfortably in/on your pack (including shoulder strap and belt containers), then it is carried weight. If it is more functional and comfortable when worn on the body or in the hands, then it is worn weight.

For instance, if you're taking pictures every 30 seconds, then it's most functional and comfortable to hold your camera in your hands all the time. Otherwise, it's carried weight because the weight of a camera is most comfortably added to the pack rather than to your chest or pant pocket. If the sun is blazing hot, a chrome umbrella can be considered carried weight, but not simultaneously with your hiking poles.

Basically, all weight is carried more comfortably in one's pack except for trekking poles (if you use them all the time), a wristwatch, and any other items that literally need to be used every minute.

The trouble is, every time I see this heading I can't help reading it as:

'Exercise for a sub-1lb intellectual'

Cheers

Hi Roger,

You like this "subject" line better?

Well I googled great kilt -interesting history. Great if it works for you.

>I have to wear something as I can't go naked.

Bill, some people even ski practically naked…

Remember Huzefa, in India women wear saris all the time in VERY hot weather that are ,I think, nine yards of fabric. That could be a silk liner. silk hammock and cuben tarp all in one!

Completed 4th prototype bivy tonight. Made from .92 oz per square yard spin cloth, standard ,9 oz no see em netting, and some #3 zipper, and I used 1 inch grossgrain for tie outs (4) with a bit of 1.35 oz sil for reinforcement.

Calculated weight is coming in at about 6 oz.

.6 oz cuben would take it to around 4.2 or so.

I ordered a new scale today … so next week I'll know exactly how much it weighs.

I found my camera, so tommorow I'll pitch it and post a few pictures.

Bill,

I think you're right on target with the thought process of this thread.

We're shooting for a killer sub 2 lb list with "fair weather" sub 1 lb pound potential.

Quick sub 1 list:

Warm hat 1 oz
Emergency Bivy converted into quilt 2 oz
Cuben pack 1.5 or so
Pad – 2 oz
Stakes and line 1.4 oz
Cuben poncho tarp – 3.6

Cuben food bag and line – 1 oz

Misc. 2 oz

1 lb

Mark, not many women wear saris these days in urban India… And some that do wear certainly dont hike in them!

Working women is villages and rural areas wear a blouse rather then a heavy sari wrapped the upper body. Cotton is much more breathable then silk and cuben.

I am not arguing against silk hammock and cuben tarp. Good for you if you are fine with it wrapped around you.

I am finding Air Pad too tempting to give up. Bill, can you tell how much does 2mil poly weight?

I have an idea -may be Axel's Packtarp design can be adapted as packgroudsheet.

________

Or may be a design like Moonbow Gearskin would be more practical? It could be made really light by using light cording instead of webbing and buckles.