Sub 1 lb. Intellectual Exercise

[Peter McDonough]

Poncho-tarp_____________5
4 Stakes________________0.88
Mylar ground sheet______0.5
sleeping pad____________2
photon light____________0.22
Cord____________________1
WM Flash Vest___________3.5
Platypus________________0.9
First Aid_______________0.75
Matches_________________0.25
Water purification______0.25
BPL Headnet_____________0.33

Total: 15.58 oz

Clothing Worn:
Zip-off pants
long sleeve nylon fishing shirt
OR goretex hat
De-feet socks
Salomon Tech Amphibian shoes
Terramar briefs
bandana(for neck sun protection)

[mark henley]

FInished up the prototype cuben pack tonight and I got my new Scale in the mail today as well!

The pack comes in right at 29 grams.

However, I'm not happy with the pack closure, so I'm going to put a small extension collar on the pack which will add another tenth of an ounce or so. My next order of Cuben should be in later in the week.

The pack comes in at 1580 cubic inches in the main pack body and another 400 cu in in the pocket. The Extension collar will act to close the pack so the volume will not be usable, however, there should be another 500 cu in in the extension collar.

I've loaded up all my gear and had no problem fitting in a bivy, poncho tarp, Quilt, a few clothes, cook kit, misc gear, two L platy, and still have about 700 cu in left for food plus most of the front pocket.

[Jay Wilkerson]

Picture-Please-If Possible

[mark henley]

Pictures are OK … humidity is messing with my digital camera

I'll post more after I finish the extension collar … not bad for one ounce.

[mark henley]

Well … I'm going a bit scale crazy at the moment …

The prototype spin bivy came out at 5.8 ounces in it's stuff sack, the full meteor bivy I made from Momentum, Sil-nylon, and noseeum came in at 6.8 ounces in it's stuff sack.

The Silnylon half poncho tarp came in at 3.6 ounces in it's stuff sack

For right now I'm sticking with the MLD Cuben poncho tarp at 3.6 ounces. I think I can make a 3/4 tarp for as little as an ounce, but I'm not sure how the .253 ounce per square yard material would hold up.

[Jay Wilkerson]

What do you think weight capacity is? How much can you carry in it?

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Bill, I hear you. yes I am just talking and havent made anything yet. But I would like to take some more time before I start MYOG. I just dont feel ready yet.

Can you explain why it would be difficult to get an airtight seam with cuben when you can do that so easily with rubber tyre tubes?

[Bill Fornshell]

Huzefa,

I was the same as you before I made my first Pack. I could sew in a straight line but not much more than that. I found some really cheap nylon looking material at my local Wal Mart – $1 a yard. I didn't care what it was so I bought the fabric that was the widest they had. I just started making patterns, cutting material and making stuff. How good were the first things. Not to bad. But the more I made the better I got. You have to start somewhere.

A Cuben air mattress and a rubber tire tube? Can you make a rubber tire tube? What kind of equipment do you have that might seal the Cuben fiber?

Don't you think that I would have a Cuben Air Mattress if I could figure out how to do it? I worked on the idea of a Cuben air mattress several years ago. I came up with a couple of things that might have worked. I talked to two different companies that had the machinery necessary and would give me some time on them to try it. The companies were not close so it would have involved a long trip, the cost of a few different types of Cuben to test with, time and more money. I had and still have the Cuben fiber I was going to use. I decided that if I did get lucky and one of my ideas did work as soon as I posted anything about it someone would just steal the idea and market it. I decided it wasn't worth the cost and that I could live without a Cuben air mattress.

[mark henley]

The straps are similar to a G6 without foam, and I've carried 15 with no problem with the G6.

There is one load carriing seam in the pack and that runs along the length and width of the back panel, so, given the strength of cuben and the layers of fabric used in the seams, I would imagine that comfort would be the limiting factor long before a seam would give out.

I ordered an additional yard of Cuben to play with yesterday, so development goes on.

I hope to publish instructions on how to make the design when I complete the next pack. I've already started taking pictures of the process.

Stay tuned to this channel.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Thanks Bill. I have got the basic pack design. I will start soon. very soon.

No I cant make a rubber tire tube but what I was thinking is that to repair tyre tube punctures you use an adhesive. It obviously give air tight seal. Even commercial inflatable pad repair kit come with some adhesive which again gives an air tight seal. so why would that be difficult to do with cuben? I am looking for a technical answer.

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Huzefa,

Good luck with your pack.

I have had a bike all my life and have patched a lot of bike tubes.

Sometimes the obvious answer is the one looking at us and we miss it.

[Bill Fornshell]

Mark,
Your gear is looking real good.

I may play with the "sleep on the ground" route and see what I can come up with.

I am not giving up on the idea to wear the Hammock and Tarp and will have more to say about that soon.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Bill, so you didnt think of that? :) please post if you get some positive results. good luck.

[Bill Fornshell]

Huzefa,
I played with the notion of glue but was focused on the type that sail makers were using. The glue gun was about $1,600 plus the glue and the cleaner to clean the gun.

I played with tape and it seemed to hold well but I never tried to see if I could use it to glue the Cuben in tubes like you might want for an air mattress. I played with several ways to seal an air mattress (Blow-up Valve) but I wasn't happy with what I could find. There also was the problem of a light dependable valve and a way to attach it.

As I said before I had a couple of other ideas but needed to do a lot of traveling to get to the equipment that might have worked. It just got to the point that it wasn't worth the cost or time for something I was not interested in trying to sell if it did work. It was going to cost to much money for one or two Cuben Air Mattresses.

For me this is ALL about finding something that will work that is LIGHTER and better than other options. Cost, up to a point is a factor.

[mark henley]

Bill/Huzefa

As Bill had talked about earlier, I'm playing with a closed cell foam pathway for a super comfy pad, so don't close out your thought processes on only going in one direction or limit yourself to one idea. Even if I can cut the 3/4 length inflatable weight in half I've made a big step forward. And progress is made in little steps generally, not quantum leaps.

As for glue, I'm sure you've thought about it, but would 5 min. epoxy work? Sure would be a tough bond.

Bill …. I'm sticking with the ground path primarily because I didn't think I could be as creative as you in the hammock area … you've been working that thread for a while now. Also, since I'm more of a Texas sized hiker, I need double the strength of material than you would.

You know … Big boys = Big toys.

I'm really excited because at a minimum I've brought my base weight down a whole pound with this exercise.

Right now I'm sub 4 with a 20 degree quilt, sub 3 with a 40 degree quilt, and pushing two pounds with a 60 degree quilt.

I'm starting to schedule my annual Fall Spirit Quest along the AT and I'm planning on using this gear to be at least sub 2 for this trip. What's a goal without a destination?

Just thinking out loud.

[mark henley]

Just ordered the materials for Bivy prototype 3.0.

I'm very excited about this one.

I started with a shortened and modified Meteor Bivy at 6.8 ounces, then created a new design and used different materials that, after three more prototypes, cut another ounce out of the design, pushing it to 5.8 ounces.

Goal for version 3.0 is to keep the desireable features of the other two versions but cut at least another two ounces out of the weight. 3.8 ounces is approaching my goal weight for a bivy.

We'll see how it goes …. lots of work yet to do.

Dream list:

Poncho tarp ~ 1 ounce
pack ~ 1 ounce (ACHIVED)
Bivy sub 4 ounces
45 degree Tunic/Quilt sub 8 ounces

Finished my Thermolite Quilt last night that comes in at 4.5 ounces. It would be good to a low of 60, it's just not as durable as I'd like.

I made it out of an old Adventure Medical Products Termolite emergency blanket that they stopped selling several years ago. Cut and sew to 54 wide at the top, 36 diameter at the bottom, sewn 18 inches up. 80 inches in length.

So …. here's the big three so far

Quilt – 4.5 ounces
Pack – 1 ounce
Bivy – 5.8 ounces
Poncho tarp – 3.6 ounces.

So we're at 14.6 ounces so far, another 2 ounces out of the bivy would give me 12.6 ounces. That's what it will take to get to Sub 1 with a cooking setup as well, IMO.

[mark henley]

Upon reading through our thread again I must say that I disagree with the thoughts that Clothing that does double duty as equipment should be included in pack weight.

These hikers are not hiking Naked. If a Scottsman used a great kilt for clothing, then transformed it into a sleep system at night, well …. it's still clothing, isn't it?

An example: I wear a bandana around my neck in hot weather. This little cotton wonder does a hundred differnt jobs around camp for me, however, if I take it off, it goes in my pocket. Not in my pack.

Should I count my bandana as packweight?

Another example: I wear nylon zipoffs … even though the potential is there to have the legs off and in my pack I count them as clothing .. should I count them instead as pack weight?

I can take off my hat and toss it in my pack … should it be counted as pack weight and not clothing?

If I'm planning on hiking in 30 degree daytime temperatures I'm going to wear a base layer and a fleece. Should the fleece be added to pack weight even though I'll never take it off?

If you wear it normally during the day … .it's primary function is clothing.

If it's packed normally during the day …. it's primary function is gear.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bill Fornshell]

The International Association of Sub 1 Pound (Gear List) Backpackers (I.A.S.1.(GL)P.B.)

Established June 4, 2008

Rules will be established and posted. Some background follows:

1. Summer Hiking – The average hiker during the warm months of the year can be expected to wear some or all of the following:
a. Hat of some type.
b. Sun Glasses.
c. Under shirt.
d. Outer Shirt.
e. Under Pants.
f. Outer Pants / Belt.
h. Gaiters.
i. Socks.
j. Shoes of some type.
k. Wrist Watch.

2. (First Rule) Others to follow.

2-a-1. Items of gear that might normally be carried in the pack, but with creative thought and design, could replace items normally worn, if substituted and worn, will be counted as "Worn" and will not count toward the Sub 1 Pound weight goal.

2-a-2. Past Practice and Precedent has been establish on other gear lists for several years to support this ruling.

2-a-3. Example – Wearing a "Great Kilt" like garment to take the place of a shirt and pants while hiking that can be used as two items such as a Hammock and a Poncho / Tarp "Is Approved" as "Worn Weight".

Bill Fornshell
Founder and President
International Association of Sub 1 Pound (Gear List) Backpackers (I.A.S.1.(GL)P.B.)

Sub 1 Pounders

Membership information and requirements will be posted as I they are finalized.

[mark henley]

2.) Poster retains intellectual property rights to items posted and gear designed. Participation denotes agreement with this stipulation. Individual use license on all ideas is granted to all members for manufacture of gear for personal use, but manufacture of goods for sale or profit is prohibited without the express written permission of the intellectual property owner.

3.) No ideas are "bad". All ideas to be treated with respect. There is no telling what other ideas may be sparked by someone else's posting.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Bill, thats a great idea.

I see problems with background rules.

c. Under shirt.
d. Outer Shirt.

I only wear a Nike wicking tshirt. I think I may not even carry bivanorak unless its monsoon -instead use some insect reppellent.

e. Under Pants.
f. Outer Pants / Belt.

Two pants for summer? And I was thinking of replacing my pants with shorts this year.

h. Gaiters.

I dont need gaiters where I hike.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Im curious about intellectual property rights.

some question:
Are these right applicable internationally?

Is it possible to sue gear makers from countries other then US?- if they steal your idea.

How do you prove that you are the owner of rights of a particular gear design? I mean anybody can claim that they have thought of this simultaneously/independently.

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Huzefa,

That list is only a guide an example for typical "worn" things that you might want to substitute other gear items for. You don't have to use any of the things on the list.

A lot of areas of the USA have a real bug problem in the summer. You may hike where there is no bug problem so what you wear / use on your hike could be completely different. Hiking in the winter or cold is another different set of clothing or gear.

The point of all of this is to try and get us thinking about how to create a list of gear that can do at least two things. One function during the time we are hiking and then a different function at night or at rest if you hike at night and rest during the day. That way we can leave something at home and we reduce the total weight of our "worn items and the total weight of our "pack" items. This should reduce the total weight that our bodies have to carry.

[Jay Wilkerson]

When do you guys actually go backpacking? Lots of time on your hands.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

My current pack weights 6.5 oz -only my flashlight prevents me cut to cut one pound. I have been thinking about making my own flash light which runs on mobile li-ion battery and is recharged by super light solar panel on my cap -solar panel weights less then a gram.

[mark henley]

Bill lives in San Antonio … I'm sure he has the same issue that I have here in Houston.

It's 80 here at night and in Houston we have 90% humidity. Impossible to sleep in this kind of weather. Also, every type of bug known to man, Scorpions, Snakes, Chiggers, Ticks, wasps the size of small aircraft ….. not to mention that many of the trails are over run with vegetation until the first frost.

Here in Texas I backpack in the Fall, Spring, and Winter.

Then I do at least two weeks in the summer.

This year I'm prepping for a week in Glacier in July. That will be a 6 lb baseweight trip due to Fishing gear.

Then I do an annual Vision Quest on the AT in the early fall every year September/October. I want that trip to be Sub 2 if at all possible.

December is a great month to backpack here in Texas …. and That's when I'd like to try Sub 1, or as close to it as I can, weekends.

[Author]

Posts