Leaving bear canister with food in car in SEKI

Bob's already given you lots of good information. He made it clear, but I'll reiterate that the road to Mineral King is not Sunday morning drive. I drive A LOT. I LOVE road trips. I didn't like driving that road. it was about only 1.5 lanes wide and curvy enough that I spent the whole drive tensed up for those (rare) times when I had to hug my side of the road when opposing traffic came around the corner.

Also, when I did a week-long loop out of Mineral King, we got hit by a black bear one night. I was 19 and stupid and scared. Now, I know how to greatly minimize bear interactions and later learned that a little attitude goes a long way with black bears in California. That bear would now be more traumatized by any interaction than I was, but that seems to be an acquired skill.

I wouldn't expect any problem with dried, packaged foods. Declare them on the forms they give you, but if you want specialized stuff, I'd bring it. But US food prices are lower and California produce fresher than anywhere else. I'd suggest you stop at a Trader Joe's (yuppie food, grab some sushi for the drive and some wraps for your first day) in LA or Fresno and then a Safeway (standard supermarket) in Fresno.

Your rental car should have plenty of range so you only have to top off in Fresno – the price of gas increase with elevation and distance form the Interstate.

Long ago, I saw a figure that SEKI had $60,000/year of auto damage by bears. The biggest avoidable issue was an ice chest visible through the windows. A black bear can peel off a car door. The trunk is much safer. I've never had a problem with food in the trunk, I haven't heard of any such problems, but if I had smoked fish or salami, I'd keep it with me or get it in a metal storage locker or simply not bring it. When I've seen a black bear go for one pack out of 10, it was always the one with the salami in it.

"Black bears just love a VW."

Who doesn't?

"SEKI had $60,000/year of auto damage by bears"

But that is only about one BMW.

–B.G.–

You probably have a valid reason, but I just wanted to make sure. If your going to Fresno, Yosemite, and SEKI why are you flying into LA? You would be better off flying into Sacramento, Fresno or San Francisco. If you are going to Whitney Portal LA might be a good choice.

Also be aware, when driving through the foothills and mountains around the National Parks google maps does not give very good estimates for drive times. If your from Canada you're probably aware of all this but I just wanted to make sure you had a good time while visiting our state.

I typically get lower prices into LAX than SMF, FAT or SFO when traveling over his lovely country on my way to Low-Cal. But that then forces me to watch my arrival and departure times carefully to avoid the most hideous LA traffic. And LAX has more non-stops for us northerners.

But it's always worth checking out other airports. Sometimes airfares are weirdly cheaper on longer, connecting flights. Here are some with shorter drive times to SEKI and that avoid some of worse areas of traffic in the LA area: Burbank, better yet Ontario, better yet Palm Springs. Fresno is definitely the closet, but would certainly involve at least one connection.

Before I pull the trigger on a particular itinerary, I like carrentals.com as a one-stop comparison of all rental agencies at a particular airport. Sometimes one airport has cars at half the price of another.

I have hiked all the parks in the high Sierra on the CA side Sequoia, Kings, Emigrant wilderness and everything in between. I never had a problem with having food in my car although I will say that if you see bears you are likely to see them near the parking lots. If your food is prepackaged and unopened and the bear canister closed one night or even a few shouldn't be a problem. Of course bears can smell your food so you are basically running the odds but I think they are largely in your favor. Never was a problem for me. I lived in Fresno, a hell hole by the way, for many years and now live in Maine. I don't miss the central valley but I do miss the High Sierra. I hope you have a great trip. I do hike in BC sometimes and bringing food into Canada is certainly a hassle. Not sure about the reverse route.

David is pretty much right. I'm in the East so I went for a connection in Toronto. I managed what I think is a pretty good deal so I jumped at it before checking SFO. I saw flights landing in Ontario but I think it was two connections to get there.

I might have 3-4 days after the hike as well (if I don't bail sooner) and was thinking of either visiting death valley, Mojave or Joshua tree. I spent two weeks in San Fran a few years ago and would like to visit other areas of California. I bet I'll wind up in the motel 6 next to the in and out burger in Fresno gorging for two days though. Can't wait to try it, never got a chance last time I was in California.

I'm renting a car so I suppose I could have flown into San Fran and dropped off the car in LA and flown out of there but this was just easier to organize and get a good deal on.

Patrick,

Here are a couple of thoughts for you.

1) Since you are driving from up LA, you might consider starting from the Eastern Sierra off of 395. Starting from the west you typically start at 5,000 to 7,000 feet and climb up. The reach the passes, it is a long, slow incline. From the east, you can start at 9,000 to 10,000 feet and get to the high country faster and in a much shorter distance. After the hike, you can drive over Tioga Pass to see other parts of California.

2) While Joshua Tree and Death Valley are great places, it is getting pretty darn hot. The last three days have been in the mid 90's in northern Los Angeles (I live just outside of the San Fernando Valley). BTW, it is 99 degree in Death Valley and the humidity is 9%.

Have a great trip.

Not having your food visible in your car is essential for sure. Frankly, I wouldn't leave any food anywhere in my car in bear country. But I'm often hiking out of Tuolumne Meadows, which has very savvy and unafraid bears. And like Neil Young, I've seen the Beetle and the damage done. (o.k. also CRV's etc.) Why not stash the canister someplace safe, out of the car, if food lockers aren't available? No worries then.

Plus, you don't need to leave food visible within a car to invoke a bear attack. One friend of mine purchased some fast food as he drove toward the mountains. He ate all of that and left the empty wrappers with food smell inside his car. Apparently that was like ringing the dinner bell for the bears. He left his car for about two days and when he returned, the driver's window had been broken out by a hungry bear. What a mess!

–B.G.–

–B.G.–,

A friend of mine cleaned out and vacuumed his car before going up to Yosemite Valley. On the drive, he picked up a burger and fries in Oakhurst and ate it in the car. Once in the Valley he disposed of all his trash and that night a bear broke into his car. Nothing but McDonalds aroma were in the car.

"McDonalds aroma"

The ursine happy meal.

–B.G.–

Lori thanks for the tips about Fresno and encouragement regarding mineral king!

I can't believe people are such a nuisance to the bears there. What gets the bears coming out, do people hand out food to them or what? I've never seen bears at campgrounds or trailheads only on the trail. Maybe I'm just lucky?

> I can't believe people are such a nuisance to the bears there. What gets the bears coming out,
> do people hand out food to them or what? I've never seen bears at campgrounds or trailheads
> only on the trail. Maybe I'm just lucky?

At least in Yosemite, I've mainly seen bears in the campgrounds and near trailheads; much fewer bear encounters in the backcountry compared to the "bear magnets": campgrounds!

Most people visiting the campgrounds (aka "slums") are extremely sloppy and careless with their food and smellables – easy pickings for the bears. Like Willie Sutton, the bears get food there "because that's where the food (money) is."

There was also a time in Yosemite (decades ago) when the park rangers fed the bears.

So these bears have developed a human-food connection over a long period of time. In addition, bear (or any other) hunting is banned in National Parks (for good reason). Bears know humans are easy sources of food and have no fear of humans.

Places where bears are hunted and are nowhere near as crowded as Yosemite in the summer, bears are not such a problem.

Yea… the bears, marmots, deer, mice, pica, etc etc etc… just awful…
I suggest you stay home. It's really not worth the risk… and… besides… maybe you should read the recent thread on how awful it is to pack your sleeping bag…
and it's crowed in the Sierra too…
Perhaps forget hiking and backpacking… just stay home and be safe on your couch…

:)

billy

"Stories? Sure. True? Yep."

I would guess there are 10x more stories of nothing going wrong… marmots or otherwise.
Just because there are a handful of stories of Bad Marmots here on BPL… does not mean there are not a thousand stories of no problems at all with marmots…

I have been to all the places Lori mentions and had no problems with marmots… or bears.. or air let out of tires… anything else for that matter…

Take it all with a grain of salt… there are a lot of whiners here on BPL…

just sayin'…

billy

Depending on the time of year and snow pack the Marmots in Mineral King can cause a lot of problems. Do a Google search for "marmots mineral king car damage".

I like that blue tarp idea. Not too expensive and maybe you could sell it to someone pulling into the lot as you're getting ready to leave.

A pound of prevention…

A tarp and some rope. A few minutes of your time. Why take the risk? Everyone pulls a oh crap card sometime.

In my opinion, the blue woven tarp is more of a multi-use item than a bale of chicken wire, and it fits into my car trunk a lot better.

–B.G.–

I bet you that not everyone gets their stuff chewed up. I bet you the ones that do tell the same stories, and they ain't whining. Nothing sucks more than some major goof up that turns your vacation into a survival scenario – the bear gets all your food four days from anywhere, the pack falls off a cliff, your buddy falls off with his pack, or you come out from a week in the wilderness to a car that doesn't start, or has a pine tree fallen in it. And just think how fun that is when the trailhead is a remote one at the end of a long dirt road. In a national forest, where there's maybe one other car. Stupid sh*t happens – not to the sainted few who believe so firmly that nothing happens to them (it doesn't happen until it does – won't that be cool, finally having a story to tell?) The scenarios are endless – and yes, I could go on. Being on a search and rescue team for a while was enough to know better. Also, I talk to other hikers once in a while, unlike other folks. Also rangers. We learn from each other, or we learn the hard way – I choose to pay more attention to the risks and problems others have had because I really like survival and hot showers instead of long filthy walks without food or water sources, or tow truck rides…

The further out you are, the more expensive it is, the longer it takes you to get back out again when the wheels don't turn. I bet the tow truck guys in Three Rivers are pretty wealthy as compared to most of their neighbors.

It's your time off. I like to enjoy mine, and to make sure that any risks that I can mitigate are minimized. Cause wow – how special am I that I have crap happen to me? Guess what? Go hiking every weekend, and you will indeed see a lot!

"I can't believe people are such a nuisance to the bears there. What gets the bears coming out, do people hand out food to them or what? I've never seen bears at campgrounds or trailheads only on the trail. Maybe I'm just lucky?"

One of the last times I went to SEKI we were taking General's Highway up to the Giant Forest for a day of wandering. About… I want to say a mile past Hospital Rock we came upon a switchback that enclosed a little meadow with a momma bear and her cub. There were a family of 5 people out of their car trying to feed the cub and the momma a f*cking hostess cupcake.

Just like we were taught, screaming and waving your arms and throwing rocks did the trick. The family left. They were cursing us, but they left.

Also, my cousin I'm afraid to admit didn't listen to us on our last trip to SEKI and were *pigs* in their campsite. There was an adolescent bear that was already getting into mischief and the bear hazing team was up all night playing hide & seek with the bear while we were there. We caught the bear ravaging a trash bag hung on the picnic table filled with food scraps. The bear had already licked up the grease in the griddle left over from breakfast that they had left out. They were fined quite a bit of money for that since that was like the 3rd time they were caught with a pigsty campsite. I had a bad feeling about that bear. They'd already tranq'd it once and took it far away to try to intervene and it found it's way back to the camp site. The thing was nearly fearless of humans. You could scream, blow whistles, throw rocks, whatever, and it wouldn't flinch. The sound of jangling keys however would send it sprinting every time. Apparently the bear hazing team carries a lot of keys on their belt.

To answer your question, people leave trash out where bears can get to or think "oh look a pooh bear!" and want to feed it or get close to it. And yes, they really are that stupid. Humans I mean. Bears go where there's lots of food that's easy to get to.

Just like we were taught, screaming and waving your arms and throwing rocks did the trick. The family left. They were cursing us, but they left.

Please tell me the screaming, arm-waving and rock-throwing was directed at the family :D