Leaving bear canister with food in car in SEKI

I'm not sure about Mineral King, but most of the National Park trail heads have large bear boxes close by. If you are going up to Mineral King, I suggest you read up a bit abut the Marmots. The seem to like to eat some of the rubber components in automobiles. I recall that a number of people use chicken wire to surround their cars. Have fun,

If you want to risk a bear smashing a window or ripping the door off your car go ahead and leave food inside.
I don't think bear canisters are odor proof.

Just do it like everyone else: leave your food in the metal lockers near the trail head.

I wouldn't worry about the marmots at Mineral King. Thousands go there and I haven't met anyone yet who had the much talked about problem. And last time I was there I didn't see anyone taking any precautions…. but you could call the ranger and ask about it if you are concerned.

Billy

Ah I thought those boxes were for car campers only. I'll stash my large BV500 there and use my bv450 on the short hike to keep rodents out of my food. Any problems with humans stealing food there?

Is this for real about rodents eating hoses and stuff? Not sure I can pick up chicken wire on short notice . . .

edit: read billy ray's post too quickly thanks for the info. The worst problem I've had was ground squirrels in the tombstone territorial park. I left my pack outside an outhouse and I could hear them crawling on my pack while I was in side. I opened the door to shoo them away and there were three of the buggers!

First of all, you understand that black bears operate by smell, by sight, and by memory of where they found food in the past.

So, if you had ten pounds of food packed into a bear canister, it ought to be fairly odor-tight. Then, if you place the canister out of sight in the car trunk, that takes it out of consideration for the bear. Instead, if you leave food odor on the outside of the canister, and then if you leave that visible within the car, you are just asking for trouble.

In some areas of high bear problem like Whitney Portal, there are steel food storage boxes next to the parking lots. Plus, they tell you not to leave anything at all visible inside the car. If you leave an empty Styrofoam cooler visible in the car, then the car may be ticketed or towed away.

Personally, I have left tightly sealed food (like canned food) in the trunk of my car on dozens of trips around SEKI. It helps that it is a solid steel sedan with a trunk and not some flimsy little thing on four wheels. No bear has ever even scratched it.

It used to be said that a Yosemite black bear growing up would be trained to know exactly where to jump up and down on the roof of a VW Beetle in order to pop things open for further bear attack.

Then there is the old story of the Yosemite black bear that was making the rounds of a parking lot one evening. The car owner had left a Virginia ham on the center console of his car, and the day's heat had baked the aroma out of the car. The bear smelled the ham, so it broke the driver's window to get in. It wedged itself between the steering wheel and the leather upholstered seat, and it proceeded to eat the entire ham. After finishing, the bear had expanded, and it found itself wedged too tightly, so then it ate the leather upholstery to get free. Then it exited by breaking out the passenger side window. That would be very difficult to explain to a car rental company.

–B.G.–

no, the boxes at trailhead parking are for people to put smellables in while they are backpacking. The campgrounds have different Lockers, one per site.

Yes, in spring, lactating marmots have a go at insulation and coolant hoses. some have ended up taking a long ride home with people while hiding under the hood. A blue tarp big enough to wrap the car and some rope is our tactic. We've seen chicken wire around cars there with the Marmot sitting on the inside under the car looking out. had to lift it to let the critter out. They push under poorly done barriers.

I get all that, that's why I said in bear canister in trunk. Never had a problem up here . . .

Thanks Lori for the info about the boxes.

I'll be going in August would that make a difference, hopefully lessen the risk?

"I wouldn't worry about the marmots at Mineral King. Thousands go there and I haven't met anyone yet who had the much talked about problem. And last time I was there I didn't see anyone taking any precautions…. but you could call the ranger and ask about it if you are concerned."

The marmots in Mineral King have quite a reputation. There is one backpacker's trailhead parking lot, and the marmots live in the rocks next to it. If you leave your car unprotected, the marmots have been known to chew on radiator hoses and electrical wiring (like the wheel sensor assembly for antilock brakes).

I was there a couple of years ago, and the rangers writing the wilderness permit cautioned me about the marmot situation, but I was already prepared.

I had a very large woven blue tarp that was about twice as large as my car. I stretched it out on the parking lot, then drove on top of it. I pulled up all of the tarp sides and corners and tied them with cord, thereby denying access to the bottom two or three feet of the car all around. I had my backpack on, so I headed up the trail. Within a few minutes, I could see the marmots circling my blue-tarped car.

In the same parking lot, I could see the coolant stains on the ground where previous cars had been attacked.

–B.G.–

holeeee, what's the situation like at road's end. Will the marmots attack the car there?

" Not sure I can pick up chicken wire on short notice . . . "

I cannot confirm that this is still the case, but there used to be a tiny general store not too far downhill from the Mineral King permit station. They used to _rent_ a piece of chicken wire adequate to surround a small car to protect it from marmot attack. The rental cost was almost exactly the same as the cost to purchase the same piece of chicken wire at a farmer's hardware store.

I have to believe that it was one of the best investment opportunities for the store owner.

Also note that chicken wire might scratch the paint on a rental car.

–B.G.–

At Roads End, the parking lot is paved, and the marmot den rocks are much farther away. I have never heard of cars being attacked by marmots there, although anything could happen.

There are lots more people around at Roads End. My car was vandalized there 15 years ago. Somebody let half of the air out of both front tires while it was parked there for four days. Both tires failed on the drive out of the park. Be careful.

–B.G.–

Ok thanks for all this info. I'm wondering If I should just skip mineral king now. Does anyone have a suggestion for an overnight that can get me to about 10,000 feet before doing the Big Seki that will not involve marauding marmots?

Check this article out Bob, I think they are quoting a previous warning from you!

http://traildirt.com/marmots-eat-car-409/

I'm sure that there are hikes like that, although maybe not so many inside SEKI.

Each year before I do Mount Whitney, I need to adapt to some altitude, so I head to one free car campground that is at 9000'. After sleeping overnight, I can drive to a trailhead that is around 11,000'. From there, I can hike up and down a 14,000' peak and return to the campground. I've learned exactly how long I need to stay there before heading on to Whitney.

–B.G.–

I'll keep doing some research then, but so far this plan seems to involve the least driving from LA. I may cave and pick up a blue tarp and rope in fresno.

On the topic of Fresno anyone know of good places to get probars and the like there? In Canada I can only find them at MEC.

edit: it seems fresno has an rei!

If you try to drive to Mineral King, you should be warned that the narrow road that goes there is awful. It is almost entirely paved, but it is very curvy and slow. The term "highway" does not come to mind.

–B.G.–

Good to know. Thanks Bob for all of your help. Part of the reason I wanted to check out mineral king is because it seems less visited than lodgepole, dorst, cedar grove etc. all of these places seem to have hikes that will get me to 10,000 feet. Decisions decisions . . .

Did you ever consider that maybe Mineral King is less-visited for valid reasons?

Some people seek that extra solitude, but then they have to deal with bad roads and evil marmots. There is one small permit station that is kind of sleepy, and they wake up when a visitor shows up at the door.

Roads End is quite the opposite. There are multiple paved parking lots with backpackers standing in line to get permits. It is a bustling little place with busy trailheads.

I parked at Mineral King and started on foot late one afternoon. I didn't see anybody at all for three out of four days.

–B.G.–

That sounds great actually, I think I may just pick up the tarp after all . . .

Patrick,
I still think the Mineral King stories are worse than the reality. I saw lots of cars there with no protection and no problems. Most people don't set up protection. And most drive out with no problems. Not saying marmot damage can't occur, but I don't think it is the norm. Rather than making a decision based on people's stories on BPL, I suggest you call the rangers and ask the current situation just before you go.

billy

Thanks Billy Ray. I may call when I land in LA. After some quick digging around tonight it seems like there are plenty of places to start with a quick overnighter. I really appreciate all the responses.

"And most drive out with no problems."

That may be because the cars that get bad marmot problems can't drive out. It is going to cost a fortune to have a car towed all the way out to civilization, even if that is only one car out of twenty.

We had a discussion about alternative methods of marmot control. One idea was to get an ancient piece of radiator hose and coat it with coolant to use as bait. Then leave that on the opposite side of the parking lot from where you park your car.

Or, you could put your own pet wolverine on a chain leash to your car's bumper.

–B.G.–

Too bad air cooled VWs are such dinosaurs. A Squareback would be a good trailhead car.

Black bears just love a VW.

–B.G.–

The REI in Fresno sells Probars (Blackstone and Nees, Riverpark – east side of Blackstone). You can also get them at Whole Foods (Shaw and Palm).

People poo poo the marmot stories… I just observe things and act accordingly. Go ahead and call the rangers – they observe a lot more than I do, as they live there all season… there is a short list of tow services that will come out from Three Rivers on the ranger station outside, and a pay phone. I bring a tarp until September.

There are other places in the Sierra where marmots chew up cars. The campground host at Courtright Reservoir – arguably far less bombarded with tourists than any park – told me he has problems with them attacking his truck. But, consider that it's parked there for weeks at a time…. They also have problem bears as well.

Marmots in Yosemite totally wrecked the handles of my trekking poles, leading to my obtaining a Lightheart Solo, which allows me to keep the poles inside with me, rather than the outside ala the Tarptent Sublite. And, it led to the habit of washing the handles off frequently in streams, in hopes of decreasing the salt content.

Marmots harassed us to the point that we threw rocks at them up in the Tablelands (Sequoia NP). Those things are not afraid of anyone. One of them stood up like a little bear and stared at me from five feet away as I was trying to set up the tent. They would have made off with stuff sacks if we hadn't been vigilant. One of us had to be on duty to chase them while the others were setting up and stashing gear. I was glad to have the bear cans.

Deer and squirrels are pests at Hamilton Lake. Deer at Pinto Lake – that's at the foot of Blackrock pass out in Mineral King.

Stories? Sure. True? Yep.

Is Mineral King worth it? You bet! More than worth it. I love that area. We did an awesome loop in October from Monarch Lakes over Sawtooth, down the valley and around to climb up Franklin Pass and back to the car – more rain, snow, hail and rain plus a totally crazy lightning storm way up in the clouds at 2 am that was noiseless but impressive. Cold, wet, but awesome. We were very happy to get that hot coffee with our pie at Silver City. Farewell Gap out into Golden Trout is another kind of awesome. This year we are going up to do some cross country out Mosquito/Eagle lakes way.