Esbit burner testing

[Stormin]

How tall would the chimney be to make it impractical.

[DAN-Y]

I am led to wonder: has anyone ever tried putting a ‘chimney’ around an Esbit tray (air gap at the bottom of course)? I have NO idea whether this would improve the mixing of Esbit fumes and air for better combustion – or just make it worse.

 

Adding a chimney has excellent results:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/103575/#comments

“This esbit tray is made of .002 stainless steel. It concentrates the flame under a 3-1/4″ pot and works well on wider pots also. If used in conjunction with a Foster beer can pot and windscreen boil results are the same as using the Calder Keg Cone set-up. The concentrator keeps the flame focused close to the bottom of the pot to prevent flame wandering. The pot support is made of durable stainless steel. Weighs under 1 ounce.”

 

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Yep,

That is the purpose of both the Focus Fire 14 stove and the Epicurean Stove.

[rmeurant]

Very effective, Dan “Been there, done that” Y.

[rmeurant]

As regards side-by-side versus stacked deployment of 4 g tabs, I don’t think a 2D surface analysis does fair justice to the actual behavior the combustion exhibits – though it does lend itself to geometric analysis (comparative surface area against time, assuming say constant rate of fuel conversion into gas; area under the graph can represent the total heat output). So I’m going to hazard a guess that flame burn is not simply a surface phenomenon, and argue that the combustion process extends to within the solid fuel; and also, flames interact with each other. My rationale is that spreading out the burn surface deconcentrates the overall flame, while clustering of fuel concentrates it. That concentration is, in a sense, self-feeding, and thus intensifies the flame, which is hotter, burns fuel more quickly, and is less dispersed, hence tends to result in hotspots on the base, which correspond to potentially burnt food on the interior, if not adequately stirred. Conversely, the side-by-side deployment gives a more dispersed slower-burning gentle flame, which I prefer.

These phenomena will depend on the burner configuration, pot base area, windscreen configuration and venting, and also on the amount of remaining fuel.

Normally I am getting a very clean pot bottom as a consequence of combustion, which simply needs a wet wipe to clean, including rubbing particular areas where there is a very thin buildup; when that doesn’t happen, and I get significant residue, I usually associate that with either strong windy, gusty conditions, or not having started with adequate fuel for the amount of liquid in the pot (e.g. when making coffee), so (in either condition) the stove has not got up to proper combustion temperature and operation.

[DAN-Y]

Conversely, the side-by-side deployment gives a more dispersed slower-burning gentle flame, which I prefer.

 

I agree!

 

I’m going to try burning a 4 gram tablet in the concentrator to see if it burns with the same vigor as the full size. I get a cheap thrill when I watch this video in “full screen” 

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I forgot, I did this video a year and a half ago.  This compares the Focus Fire 14 with the Epicurean Stove.

 

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I did try a 2 inch chimney with 4 bottom vent holes of 1/8″. Didn’t seem to change boil times at all. But I never followed up with testing more holes or making 3 1/8″ “legs” on the bottom instead of the 4 holes. I used a cut down aluminum mousse can B/C it was the correct diameter. Compared to the Epicurean my mousse can was a bit taller.

To me the Focus fire is still the best “chimney” so far. It seems to literally focus the flame, as the name suggests.

Why does the FF work? Likely because if keeps the flame from dispersing somewhat before reaching the utensil bottom. Also it seems the FF may accelerate combustion a small amount. I haven’t checked burn times with and without the FF.

 

 

 

 

[DAN-Y]

Chimney type pot support can be seen on the upper right of this photo. If you do a DIY concentrator, incorporate it into a one piece pot support. I’ve done it several times but never had the time to produce them in quantity to share with members, sorry :-(

[rmeurant]

I visited the Moonlight-Gear shop in Chiyoda-Ku, Tokyo today, dedicated to ultra-lightweight backpacking. Maybe Dan and Eric are interested. Dan, I mentioned the world-famous Zelph stoves, which one day might hopefully appear on his shelves (if not there already?); showed him one of the Youtube videos on the Starlyte.

Second to top shelf, second or third item on the left is the If you have TiMNEY stove you like, Dan. It’s been well used, but still elegant. Depends a great deal on the thinness and detailing of the joint to form the cylinder, which is very well handled. The cylindrical shield supports the brim of the custom Pound Cup pot supplied by the same manufacturer, a good fit. Very tidy. Somewhere else there is the other half. Anyone visiting Tokyo might be interested to visit Chiyo’s (?) shop – it’s quite easy to find from Goggle Map, and nearby Kanda, which has a great concentration of outdoor gear shops, as well as vintage book shops. Great ambiance. I was unable to locate any rocket fuel there, Eric, but one day…

 

 

[DAN-Y]

 

The TiMNEY stove is the best set-up on the shelves by far. 

[rmeurant]

I’m wondering if it was adapted to a truncated cone shape, instead of the cylindrical form, while retaining the possibility of using just the top half for alcohol/solid fuel. Possibly the lower half could be used for frypans or larger diameter pots. Also I didn’t check stacking the two halves; that needs to be facile in poor conditions.

[rmeurant]

Mitaka Station, Tokyo, is easily reached from Shinjuku JR station (NOT Shinjuku-sanchome Station nearby) on the Chuo Line. From there, South Exit, walk 10 minutes, past Freshness Burger (recommended, plus excellent English), hard to get lost…

Red top unscrews to reveal carbon blanket.

The tray on the right enfolds the grid at either of its ends. Both are pretty compact.

Back right tripod I should have photographed close-up, the base has the three legs notched into one another around the small central triangle they form, like a pinwheel, quite elegant; significantly larger than the Esbit tripod.

That curved mesh on the right is quite refined. Comes flat.

The small stove at right is quite elegant.

I understand Big Bertha left above is a booster stage for Eric’s rocket fuelled stove…

They thought the TiMNEY stove wouldn’t be available until next Spring, or then-abouts. Enjoy, Dan!

[DAN-Y]

The small one is a good candidate for an Esbit stove. Eric’s afterburner even has a side rack for making toast….nice accessory. Ikea DIY wood stoves are popular.

Nice store to spend some time getting ideas which stove to purchase next :-) Thanks for the photos and a chance to see what you really look like.

 

[rmeurant]

Thanks Dan, I’ve had that photographer beheaded – wasted all his time on BPL posts. My attraction to these places is not primarily as stores, but as speciality centers that are part museum, part repository of knowledge, sources of inspiration, creative nurturance, etc. The commercial dimension is much less important. I also revisited a telemark store there that has among the new gear, stock of considerable vintage; speciality wooden touring skis, etc. Love it! Although in the Japanese backcountry gear stores there is a fair, even generous range of US imports, there is also ample evidence of local explorations, ingenuity, and craftsmanship. And reminding me that there is more than one way to solve tasks. Subjectively, a great deal less copying of US goods, and much stronger sense of working in a local tradition, e.g. in tents, and drawing on local historical antecedents, e.g. tubular elliptical snow shoes, derived from wooden archetypes. I also derive considerable pleasure from revisiting these places year after year, and getting some sense of their evolution and life – the IBS-ISHII store in Fukuoka I’ve revisited in three different locations/incarnations to date… while the venerable Rally Grass just keeps on keeping on…

[DAN-Y]

It’s good you have been able to watch the advancement in designs by having been able to visit these museums of sports goods. My recent purchase of a cone windscreen design from the east shows how they are more advanced in design. Far superior than Trail Designs cones.

You’re going to like the design of this esbit/alcohol stove:

 

[rmeurant]

Can’t view the jpegs, Dan…

[DAN-Y]

try these

 

[rmeurant]

Thanks, hi-tech!

[DAN-Y]

Robert, I ordered a few

The pot support/feet spread is nice.

[rmeurant]

I prefer your stoves Dan, but what about the cone windscreen? Are you referring to a different product, not that in the jpegs? I presume so…

[DAN-Y]

I was refering to the cone set I purchased in this thread:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/how-will-trail-designs-stop-this/page/3/#comments

I purchased that set-up just to observe the manufacturing of the parts. The quality is better than what is seen in TD and my cones.

[Brian Devlin]

Dan….did you buy the aluminum pot? The one that says “Bowl Art Camp” on the lid. By the dimensions the seller gave me it might fit inside a grease pot. Grease pot is right at 5.375″ ID. Any idea if it will fit and BTW what is the exact ID of the Aluminum pot?

[DAN-Y]

Brian, I got the titanium pot. Check these out:

https://www.welenda.com/products/aluminum-lids-and-pots-small-cookware-with-good-heat-conductivity-for-camping-outdoors

Specifications:
Material: Aluminum
Pot(350ml) Size: 11.5 * 4.5cm / 4.5 * 1.8in (D * H)
Pot(450ml) Size: 12 * 5cm / 4.7 * 2.0in (D * H)
Pot(650ml) Size: 13.5 * 6cm / 5.3 * 2.4in (D * H)
Weight: 212g / 7.49oz
Package Weight: 275g / 9.7oz
Package Size: 15 * 15 * 7cm / 6.0 * 6.0 * 2.8in

https://www.dhgate.com/product/y2527-aluminum-lids-and-pots-small-cookware/425936687.html

Specifications:

Material: Aluminum Pot(350ml)

Size: 11.5 4.5cm / 4.5 1.8in (D H)

Pot(450ml) Size: 12 5cm / 4.7 2.0in (D H)

Pot(650ml) Size: 13.5 6cm / 5.3 2.4in (D H)

Weight: 212g / 7.49oz

Package Weight: 275g / 9.7oz

Package Size: 15 15 7cm / 6.0 6.0 2.8in

Package List: 3 Lids 3 Pots

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Be very interesting to find the actual weight of the 650ml pot (and lid). I mean if the total for all three is 7.49oz its pretty promising. Especially as they all have handles. Some very thin Aluminium…

 

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