Esbit burner testing

Use spellcheck when you do that. OK?

Might I respectfully suggest several (a range of) standard, but with the key notion that they are stated and agreed upon. E.g. Water starts at 0 C; ambient temperature is defined; water quantities say 300ml, 450ml, 600ml; m tabs of 4gm or n tabs of 14gm; agreed upon definition of boiling say 100 C; so can develop a performance matrix of ideals, also best or typical performances of common systems..

Just a SUGGESTION.

"Bob had stated the 16 grams was standard."

Dan, I stated nothing of the kind. You got it completely wrong.

–B.G.–

"agreed upon definition of boiling say 100 C"

That would be too difficult for some people to achieve. Some people live and test at higher elevations where the boiling point is depressed.

–B.G.–

Ken, my spell check doesn't work in the header box. My mistakes are usually something for Bob to find. LOL. Thanks for watching for mistakes. Now I have 2 watchers;) Keep me on the write path ;)

Robert, good SUGGESTION.

My mistake, Bob said:

The Esbit standard is to boil 16 ounces of water using one 14-gram cube. Wind, water temperature, and other minor factors are poorly defined.

–B.G.–

(awsorensen) said:
I have a great setup I use but even it is so over kill for it’s use.
I still need to get some food grade high temp sealer for the inside for the seam of the 2-1 can pot.
I’ll also take the inner coating off before putting everything together.

And why not?
It’s very strong.
Much stronger than the 2 cup Fosters Pot and 1.4 times lighter.
20 grams = 0.7 ounces.

And why not?
It's very strong.
Much stronger than the 2 cup Fosters Pot and 1.4 times lighter.
20 grams = 0.7 ounces.
It severs the purpose I need it for and it's 3.75 times lighter than the Fanatic 700.

Aaron, my only concern would be the long-term integrity of the seal.

Having worked quite a bit with epoxies in another hobby, I am aware that they're not the choice when subjected to even small amounts of flexing.

With a Fosters pot as pictured by Dan, at least it's one piece and it can be dented, bent and warped without causing a breach.

But I'm sure you'll test the heck out of it before committing.

I do appreciate your limits-pushing, out-of-the-box thinking, however. I always read your posts to see if there's some application to my considerably less edgy exploits.

Bob

As much as I tried to push this aluminum pot it will not work and I have given up on the sealing together of two pots.
I do however like my bowl with my added handle on it much more then any aluminum can. Even with the ridges they are not what I'm looking for in strength.

Aaron, is there a description somewhere of this 2-piece pot?

Stephen,
It's just 2 of the 1oz durable pots that people are using.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=102337&skip_to_post=865680#865680

Where is the best place to purchase a case of 14 gram esbit? I read here on BPL somebody purchased by the case but can't remember who it was….duh!

Aaron Sorenson's comment about finding which stoves and pot sizes work best with ESBIT is echoing my "Sweet Spot" post in this thread. And he has a point re. needing to get more scientific comparisons of ESBIT stoves.

So, I think I've found that "sweet spot" of ESBIT efficiency.

PULEEZE post here if you've found anything that improves upon my setup.

"can't remember who it was….duh!"

Who do you think?

Last year I noticed a sale at the REI outlet. I think a box was $4.73, which was a few bucks under the normal price, so I ordered 15 boxes. Of that, 10 boxes were for a backpacker-friend and 5 boxes were to go into my reserve fuel cache.

–B.G.–

Do Esbit tablets go "stale" over time?

Does prolonged exposure to oxygen (outside their sealed packaging) somehow diminish their performance?

I noticed that one of my half-tabs that had been out of its original packaging and in a ziploc bag had lost its "fishy" smell, and perhaps some of its heating ability?

B.G., were those REI Outlet tabs actually the Bleuet brand, and not Esbit? I bought a bunch of them myself. I found that they didn't perform quite as well as the Esbit brand. They worked OK, but not as well as Esbit.

@ Bob Moulder: I'm kinda thinking that something does happen if the Esbit tabs are exposed to air for a long time. I have seen where they don't perform quite as well as a fresh, sealed tablet. I have asked this question on the forums before, and most of the responses were that the tablets remained unchanged. I'm not so sure about that. The fishy smell seems to go away, which might mean that some off-gassing occurs. How the chemistry of the tablet is altered, who knows? I am now vacuum-sealing my Esbit (as well as the Bleuet I bought last year) as soon as I buy them, which seems to help with shelf life.

"were those REI Outlet tabs actually the Bleuet brand, and not Esbit?"

It beats the crap out of me. As I recall, I purchased both brands there at different points in time a year ago. The big difference is that Bleuet is a pinkish-orange in color. Esbit is white.

–B.G.–

To quote myself from an old thread:

I used some five-year-old Esbit tablets that had been stored in my cool basement, original packaging, inside Ziploc bags, inside sealed buckets.

These old tablets popped many times, sort of like popcorn, and threw tiny chunks of burning Esbit around. They boiled water OK, but I worried about starting fires or melting holes in expensive gear.

Now I buy just the Esbit I need, when I need it.

YMMV.

— Rex

It is quite obvious that Esbit tablets are packaged to be air-tight, and I suspect that is for a reason.

–B.G.–

Thanks. That was my strong suspicion.

Yes. Solid fuel tablets (Esbit, Bluet, likely some others) are Hexamine or close derivatives (1,2,3 trioxane for example.) They can pick up moisture from the atmosphere or hygroscopic. The tablets can also out gas small amounts of ammonia and formaldehyde giving the tablets a "fishy" smell. These are packaged in air tight containers to prevent this. But, plastics are known to leak water vapor. Long term storage(in the order of years) in damp conditions can still allow water vapor to penetrate a tab right through packaging unless it is a metal foil packaging. I am not sure which chemical is responsible for the breakdown. Likely, some of the manufacturing components found in small amounts since this is how it is made, by mixing the two, ammonia and formaldehyde, often in solution, and collecting the crystals (which do not dissolve.)

Some byproducts of burning are formaldehyde, ammonia, nitrogen oxide, hydrogen cyanide and other not quite as toxic substances. Be careful about burning the tabs in an enclosed space.

Anyway, some popping, sputtering is noted in old tablets. I have had some for 5-7 years that did that. I assume it is from water, but it could be from normal equilibrum reactions to produce minute amounts of RDX, an explosive. Hexamine is a precursor to producing RDX, which is a bit more stable.

"So, I think I've found that "sweet spot" of ESBIT efficiency.

PULEEZE post here if you've found anything that improves upon my setup."

Eric

Just to let you know, no mater how light I seem to go, I like my most simple cook setup better.
.

I made a BGET style holder that fits a 14 gram esbit cut in half.
It will easily boil 2 cups of the coldest water in a stream you can find.

Just wanted to give an update on progress.

A lot of trial and error got me to a set up that can boil 2 cups of 70 degree start temp water consistently with 10 grams of esbit. I used a cone, a 2.5 cup capacity aluminum pot and a new design esbit tray. I used 2-1/2, four gram esbits.

No residue left in tray. Bottom of pot looks typical for esbit residue.

More testing to come to see if I can get the same results using a straight wall windscreen.

Aaron claims to have boiled even colder water with much less fuel.

–B.G.–

For years I have been using a Caldera GVP Esbit kit. Sometimes I use a LiteTrail Esbit set-up. Both weigh around 3 ounces with everything except the fuel.

So… I have not spent any time researching or trying to find something more efficient. They work for me. Time is money :)

BG, you're correct. Aaron said he made a BGET style holder that fits a 14 gram esbit cut in half.
It will easily boil 2 cups of the coldest water in a stream you can find.