Apr 15, 2015 at 6:48 am #2192076
Under calm conditions, I'm able to get consistent 2 cup boils using the 10cm Imusa Mug and 3 four gram esbits. Starting water temps at 70 degree.Apr 15, 2015 at 10:57 am #2192135Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
As mentioned here in a few posts,
1.The DISTANCE of the ESBIT flame from the pot bottom is important for maximum efficiency.
2. The SIZE of the pot (i. e. amount of wear to boil) also greatly affects boil time.
3. The SHAPE of the pot (i.e. wider than it is high) is important as the ratio I just described had been proven to be the most thermally efficient.
4. The SHAPE of the "wind screen" (i.e. Caldera cones have proven to be the most efficient)
5. Finally the "JUICE RESERVOIR" of the BEGIT tablet holder permits the liquid ESBIT residue to be retained for burning, almost doubling burn time.
So I think I may have found the "sweet spot" for these parameters.
My CC Sidewinder stove is sized for a 3 cup Open Country anodized aluminum pot/lid. Using a BGET tablet holder on the included small aluminum ground base seems to be the optimum height for the ESBIT flame. I can easily boil 3 cups of 50 F. water in 8 to 10 minutes, depending on ambient temp., using one tablet. For longer burns I use two tablets side-by-side, such as cooking spaghetti noodles or other pasta, heating reconstituted DIY dehydrated spaghetti sauce and for frying omelets and pancakes. (Yes, I do actually cook with my ESBIT stove.)
So size of stove and amount of water to be boiled are important variables with ESBIT stoves. And using some kind of ESBIT holder (BET or pop can, etc.) that contains the liquid residue for burning greatly affects tablet burn times.
BTW, see my recent post about the WalMart mini skillet that nicely fits this size stove.Apr 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm #2192209
Eric, I agree it's all about pot size and the containment of the melted esbit juice….and the use of some kind of windscreen.
I have a Caldera Cone made for a 12cm aloomeenum mug. The mug has a capacity of 4 cups. Tomorrow I'll see what kind of performance it gets with a 14 gram esbit and the BGET tray. I suspect it will easily boil the 3 cups. As KJ said in another thread, one of the cones has a distance of 2" pot bottom to ground? My cone has that dimension also.Apr 17, 2015 at 2:31 pm #2192736
I put together a quick stainless steel stove to include a modified BGET tray. 3 cups of tap water(did not take temp reading) in a 12cm Imusa mug, in my garage under calm conditions, I boiled the 3 cups easily with a 14gr esbit. No windscreen. After reaching a boil, it seemed like it continued to boil for at least 3 min. I had just made the SS stove so I wanted to test the draft and flame spread.
Stove weighs 33gr
Height is 2.5"
Only soot was deposited on the bottom of the pot…no gooey stuff. Soot easily wipes off.Apr 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm #2193028
I did 7 boil tests today using esbit in the BGET Brian Green Esbit Tray. I used a 32 ounce Conquistador pot in the Trail Designs Caldera Keg-F system. The supporting ridgeline positions the pot 1-3/4" from the ground. The BGET sits on the ground. Starting water temperature was 55 degrees out of the tap. I have well water. A slight breeze in my garage for all tests. I used 1 full size 14 gram esbit and one 4 gram esbit. All 7 tests produced a boil and continued for at least another 2 min. I boiled 4 cups every time for the 7 tests. The BGET esbit tray works really well in a coneApr 19, 2015 at 7:48 am #2193103
The BGET tray I used was a modified one that had the "bread pan" corners.
It was Rod Braithwaite that came up with the idea of using "bread pan" corners when making a BGET. See his comments:Apr 20, 2015 at 6:22 am #2193327
Good tests, Dan, and right in line with what I found using Esbit in the field for the first time this past weekend.
Using the FF14/CC/Evernew 1.3 above I also got 4-cup boils and then some even in somewhat windy conditions. No doubt, the cone setups really are superior no matter what fuel tray is used. I don't know the start temperature of the water, which I got from a stream.
Nice to know that I've got this option that solidly meets my 4-cup requirement. I recall reading some folks' comments about the stinky/messy aspects of the system but I found them very minor and hardly noticeable. I simply scraped the bottom of the pot on some sand and put the burner bits in a little snack-size baggie — good enough. I could live with this.May 13, 2015 at 5:30 pm #2199298
So I have been playing around with multiple esbit stoves using the 4g tabs. Unfortunately, the BGET does not easily fit (2) 4g tabs as shown. The BGET was made by Zelph.
The Tri-Wing esbit stove will fit (2) 4g tabs ONLY if brand new as shown. My used Tri-Wing stove had too much residue buildup from prior use that did not allow for (2) 4g tabs to fit. Further cleaning will need to be done on that one.
So what I did with some scrap titanium foil (which Jon from Flat Cat Gear graciously sent me a while back so big thank you to him) from a failed attempt at making a BGET the first time was really quick I set out to make a BGET that fit (2) 4g tabs. Now, I did not measure anything, take my time, or put much effort into making it look "pretty". I will be the first to admit that it certainly was not put together well nor did I try very hard on it as I figured it would mainly be a prototype. I eyeballed up (2) 4g tabs and bent some titanium foil and this is the outcome.
It will definitely work and the titanium foil is much more stiffer than the stainless steel foil I believe Zelph uses giving me the impression it could be slightly more durable – for what its worth. Here's some comparison shots.
I just got one of Jon's DIY Focus Fire stoves that I still need to put together in my quest of esbit testing so I'm looking forward to that!May 13, 2015 at 5:43 pm #2199302
Any reason why you used the sizing with the esbit flat instead of on it's narrow sides together?
Seems like that may get a better burn from it?
I to will be making the same set-up as you with my lighter system.
Just need to get the tabs and make everything.
Nice!May 13, 2015 at 5:49 pm #2199303
No there was no particular reason behind it. My initial assumption is that you would get a hotter, faster burn leaving more esbit exposed while on its side while as laying them flat as I had would give a longer, slower burn but I have no testing to support that claim.
Definitely an interesting idea and I will have to run some tests with the cubes configured both ways and report back. I'd like to see your setup once you get it made.May 14, 2015 at 4:12 am #2199406
Jameson, were you using a windscreen?
Even when it's not windy a windscreen helps to channel the hot gases closer to the pot, leading to increased efficiency.
The caldera cone is IMO best in this regard because it is the most efficient when it comes to channeling the gases and having them "dwell" longer on the pot sides, and the lower intake vents and upper exhaust vents are sized and positioned perfectly for taking advantage of low flame velocity burners such as Esbit and alcohol.
It is a bit premature for me to reach this conclusion, but from my limited testing with the CC I'm starting to think that it almost doesn't matter what burner is used as long as the flame height is correct.May 14, 2015 at 5:41 am #2199413
The Brian Green esbit tray seems to retain the necessary heat to consume the entire esbit whereas my Esbit Tri-Wing always has a waxy glob remaining.May 15, 2015 at 1:23 pm #2199792Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
This thread warms the cockles of my ESBIT-loving heart. IT is to me what alky burner posts are to alcohol burner fans.
We are discovering the ins and outs of ESBIT burners for max efficiency and applying that info to our own stoves, whatever they may be.
CHIVE ON ESBITers!May 15, 2015 at 1:34 pm #2199797
Are you saying that Esbit warms the cookies in your heart?
–B.G.–May 15, 2015 at 1:47 pm #2199799
Hmmm… I think I might agree, but first I've got to google "cockles"
Must be okay, though. The "auto-censor" didn't scrub it.May 15, 2015 at 2:01 pm #2199803
All wee need now is to find someone with a smaller Caldera Cone system that can get 2 cups of water to boil from a two 4-gram BGET style burner.
They can go against all other systems to figure out which can get a quicker boil (if at all)
Then we can find out if the caldera is the true winner in efficiency.
Of course a wide 1.3L pot may boil the water, but that is not what we're after.
I'm willing to bet a better assessment of the hight, reflection and thermal efficiency will be a must to get a boil.May 15, 2015 at 2:31 pm #2199810
Of course a wide 1.3L pot may boil the water, but that is not what we're after.
Well, okay, some of us aren't and some of us are. :^)
The Goldgear.com "Fanatic" 700cc kit at 2.66oz for Esbit looks pretty good, but probably too heavy by your standards.
Not a criticism and not meant to be snide in any way… just that IIRC you glued together some cans to make a pot for a HUL setup (I doubt seriously I can take credit for coining a term, but let's call it "hyper-ultralight").
I require only a garden-variety UL setup with some durability because it's just me and the dog and we might do 20 miles on a good day.May 15, 2015 at 2:53 pm #2199814Cayenne RedmonkBPL Member
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
With a stock caldera gram cracker and cone, I have never had a trouble getting two boils per regular tablet in typical sierra water. This is pretty standard, no ?
I'm confused about the improvements gained from using two smaller tablets. Is this mostly a win for people who don't want to carry a half used esbit tablet for whatever reason ?May 15, 2015 at 2:57 pm #2199815
The Esbit standard is to boil 16 ounces of water using one 14-gram cube. Wind, water temperature, and other minor factors are poorly defined.
–B.G.–May 15, 2015 at 3:14 pm #2199824
I would just rather use the 4 grams due to less smell from them due to the way they are packaged.
Plus the whole point is to get it to boil with two 4-gram esbits.
I have a great setup I use but even it is so over kill for it's use.
I still need to get some food grade high temp sealer for the inside for the seam of the 2-1 can pot.
I'll also take the inner coating off before putting everything together.
And why not?
It's very strong.
Much stronger than the 2 cup Fosters Pot and 1.4 times lighter.
20 grams = 0.7 ounces.
It severs the purpose I need it for and it's 3.75 times lighter than the Fanatic 700.
If I could do something like this to every piece of my gear (going the homemade version), it would be like going from a 14 pound base to a 10 pound base.
It's for this reason that almost every item of my gear is homemade.May 15, 2015 at 3:56 pm #2199833
"It severs the purpose I need it for"
I haven't severed anything in a long time.
–B.G.–May 16, 2015 at 7:22 pm #2200066
Aaron, let's re-write the standard for esbit. Three 4 grams esbits to boil 2 cups of water.
Oops, I'll be back LOLMay 16, 2015 at 7:43 pm #2200070Robert MeurantBPL Member
The severity of the servitude serves the severance…May 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm #2200071
Has it been concluded what the actual necessary amount of esbit is needed? (Assuming not a Caldera Cone which may or may not increase efficiency indefinitely)
Nobody seems to be able to get a boil of 2 cups of water with 8 grams. Obviously the starting temp of the water plays a huge factor BUT (big but with no definitive answer) generally what is needed? Will 9 grams work theoretically? Will 10 grams do it if you use 2.5 cubes? It seems everyone has had success with 12 grams so obviously the minimum is somewhere between 8 and 12 grams to use no extra fuel.May 16, 2015 at 7:57 pm #2200076
Bob had stated the 16 grams was standard. 3 four gram esbits are plenty for 2 cups.
Having photo upload problems. Will be back.
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