Esbit burner testing

Robert,

I dunno if I’d use my ESBIT kit inside my solo well ventilatedTT Moment DW or even my larger Scarp 2. The fumes are too noxious. I guess if I did I’d then (with either tent) have to have both vestibule doors open to a degree as well as both end vents.

I’ve used a Butane stove inside a vented tent in a big snowstorm but only as little as possible, just to boil water for a FD meal.

Ah, no worries about using a canister stove inside the tent. We have been doing that for the last 15 – 20 years.

All you have to do is make sure there is a high vent above the stove for the steam and CO2 to go out.

(The white sky is just high cloud, not snow. But it was a bit warmer inside the tent.)

Cheers

Hi guys, I need your input before I test again and waste a lot of Esbit.

I’m currently doing weekend overnights in the Alps and need to boil/heat max 400ml.
The hight is around 2900m and the temperature this weekend was around 0C.

I noticed that due to a proper windscreen the setup worked more or less but was not perfect, and I’m now trying to assemble a more efficient setup using the existing components I have:

• BPL 550ml firelite stove (the one with wooden lid handle)
• Esbit 3-wing stove
• TI DX Stove Set (the two rings could be used as a stand
• Caldera Gram Cracker
• Caldera Cone that fits the pot (distance from gram cracker base to pot are ~5.3cm)
• Titanium Windscreen (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GqxlJ9jyL.jpg)
• Grid Wire for DIY tests

I’m now wondering what would make the most efficient setup with the lightest weight.
Using the 3-wing Esbit stand I’m wondering if that’s the right distance to the pot at all (3cm).
I noticed that if I use the TI DX rings as a base the problem is that the pot is larger than those rings, thus I don’t have a strong pot heating effect as I would have with a narrow windscreen or caldera cone.

Any recommendations?

Not wanting to cross Christoph’s query, and hope it gets answered. For Eric’s benefit in regard to his earlier mention of spot heating, here are the Uniflame – not Mont Bell, sorry, gauze pads I was referencing. In two sizes:
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And here the toaster:

And here, the wildly expensive Ninja firestand, very light:

Maybe Dan mentioned this some time ago.

I’m now wondering what would make the most efficient setup with the lightest weight.
Raise pot 6″ in the air.
Remove Ti windscreen to one side.
Discard everything else and replace with a gas canister with a BRS-3000T stove.
Lower pot.
Replace windscreen.
Coffee will follow shortly.

Cheers

I was almost expecting that answer Roger :)

However – the results with Esbit were not too far off, it worked but I think it can be done in a more efficient way. I just want to start the experiment in the right direction.

:)

Christopher, I can’t measure it right now but when I did some experiments with wire grid stands I think I found the ideal height was either 1.25 or 1.5 inches. I should be clear that my rig was different than yours in a few key details:

• I was trying to optimize with a smaller cookpot, a MLD 475 mug.
• I was using 1.5 four gram Esbit tablets
• i was using a tiny DIY ti foil stove that wrapped the bottom and two long sides of my 4g tablets in a manner simulate to a Gram Cracker.
• I was using a straight ti foil windscreen with ~1cm gap not a cone.

With 14g tablets you might want to try a BG Esbit tray. Zelph will sell you a nice one or you can make your own.

Robert, the central connection is interesting. The mesh is too fine, will clog quickly.

1.25 or 1.5 inches is not so far away from the standard 3-wing Esbit stand.
My Caldera Cone results in a distance of 1.96 inches with the Gram Cracker stove.

I’m using the 14g tablets – the flame height varies if you use them upright, split into two parts, etc.. there are so many factors.
Same for the windscreen. I wondered how much of a gap you need around the pot to to have to optimal airflow and pot heating effect.

I also wondered about a pot cozy while cooking but I guess that’s getting too hot. I could try to use something at the top or lid.

Everyone has an opinion, of course. One of mine is that the standard Esbit tri-wing stoves (there are several brands, which are all about the same) places the pot about 1.0 inch above the top of the Esbit tab. With all due respect for German engineering, I think this is a bit too close. The 1.25-1.75 inch tab-to-pot distance has been generally agreed upon here on BPL. When I make titanium rod pot stands for people, I try for 1.5 inches, which seems to work well for them. As for the air space between the sides of the pot and the wind screen, my experience is that .375-.5 inch works well. Less than .375 inch impedes the upward flow of the exhaust gasses, and more than .5 inch seems less efficient to me.

This article is old, but still valid.

http://thru-hiker.com/articles/esbit_stove_height.php

I use a toaks 550 with ti-wing stove and a cone .   It’s light and efficient.

Not tried it at altitude, but have used esbit in the Pyrenees in a larger 900ml sidewinder cone with 1.25″ gap ( on my upturned Starlite) and it worked fine. Performance/efficiency just as expected.

From thru-hiker, thank you Mole J

Thenks Dan. Good info.

Now for the info on pot width-to-height ratio and efficiency. Wider than tall seems to be the right direction.

UPDATE:

Given that ESBIT flame from a standard size tablet is a fixed quantity then it must also be a “given” that the parameters of efficiency are pretty well “fixed” ->1.Pot size ->2.pot shape ->3.Pot material (aluminum, stainless, titanium) ->4.tablet-to-pot bottom distance ->5.windscreen shape and venting

VARIABLES:   ->1. water start temperature ->2. air temperature ->3. wind speed

Due to the fixed size and shape of ESBIT tabs one can only vary the flame size by adding tablets in a different format, i.e. wider side-by-side array. This is where alcohol burners differ in that they come not only in many surface area sizes but in flame dispersal patterns. More room for experimentation.

Wider than tall seems to be the right direction.

Always!

Robert, I made a custom size esbit tray for a guy that will use it in this micro stove. The cube will be in the vertical position. I’ll also be using the tray to burn half cubes.

Look at the white residue left under the stove caused by the esbit leaking. It’s no wonder he want a tray :-)

Surely he should use a thimble for a pot! Nicely detailed though. Hard to assemble and use when fatigued, when needed most. Better with 4 g tab or a half tab and a 200-250 ml Ti cup for a pot. I meant to mention with my rig that I generally find a 1/2 4 g tab enough to get  300 ml coffee piping hot (not boiling), in windy conditions. I think you guys maybe use too much Esbit..?

Is this the solution to Eric’s quest for rocket fuel?

Dan, I have several times been hypothermic or simply exhausted to the point where I had difficulty assembling my Emberlit Ti Fireant, which otherwise I really like. And in an exposed situation it would be dead easy to drop and lose a part in the assembly or disassembly process. That also applies to other designs, of course, but my point is that ease and dependability of assembly and disassembly should be a design consideration with these various stoves, and even more so in a survival situation.

Dan, I have several times been hypothermic or simply exhausted to the point where I had difficulty assembling my Emberlit Ti Fireant, which otherwise I really like.

“and even more so in a survival situation.”

In those situations I wouldn’t bother with a stove. My fire would be directly on the ground and take care of the “leave no trace” afterwards.

That new fuel takes too long to burn. folks here on BPL are in the fast lanes…….canister stoves for the most part. Eric will stick with esbit, it burns faster.

The 1st post in this thread shows a good way to burn esbit efficiently. It’s one piece, just like a bget. The TD esbit holder is 3 pcs.(fiddle factor, pcs to lose)

Hmm… cleaner, longer burning, what next? lilac aroma?

I may just get a case. The zombie apocalypse may not be that far away. Look at Puerto Rico.

Thank you Robert. Thou art a fount of information. Dan, you are a geyser of information.

Some quotes from the video:

Kristopher Williams
10 hours ago
Well, I just went online to order a box of these. The good deal of 40 for $16 quickly evaporated when I saw they were going to bill me $15+ in shipping. That immediately negated the cost savings for me. I guess I’ll just be sticking with the Esbit tablets instead. Good review though. Keep up the great work!

Ed Baxter
3 days ago
My friend…….Good job as always however, I think you understate the absolute stench of these fuel tabs. I rid myself of every last one. Kept in double zip lock bags the odor permeated all of my gear and was horrendous! Double bagged inside a Rubbermaid tote in a hot vehicle it made my whole vehicle wreak! And residue? Well, not that big of a deal on a designated fuel tab burner but the stink and crust left on the bottom of your cook container is totally unacceptable for my mileage. It took a razor blade and a sanding block to remove the crust from my ozark trail mug($5), thankfully it is thick enough to tolerate the removal process…..I would have been super upset had I tried this with my titanium cook pot(way more than $5). There are way more pleasant ways to start fires and in my opinion this chemical nastiness should be nowhere anything edible or consumable. That is just my two cents

Yes Dan, but please note that I am not advocating the use of this alternative fuel. The quote of the response on the stink, which I had already read, would have been enough to put me off, but besides, I am as you are well aware a definitively determined and deucedly declared decidedly dedicated 4 g Esbit devotee. And besides the style of that YouTube host grates on me – I mean sunglasses for an up-close interview – does he imagine he is Bono?

Dan, I caved into temptation, and just before leaving Japan a week early, and prompted by the unsettled weather, bought an Evernew 7 foo bo (does that stand for “food bowl”, referring to the plastic case?) windscreen (as I’ve discussed and illustrated in previous posts) to try out. Should be interesting. But my custom rig performed outstandingly while traveling; often windy days posed no problem to brewing my essential coffee hit.

But nevertheless there is certainly an opening in the market for a better performing fuel – stink-free, residue-minimalizing, easy storable. Given the unstable international situation, there ought to be lucrative opportunities for military markets worldwide. I therefore propose that we form a BPL collective to research, develop, and market this solid fuel, to be known as Energetic Eric’s Absolutely Amazing Alternative Reliably Rapid Rocket Fossil-free Fuel Imaginatively Inspired By and Determinedly Developed From Director Dan’s Enduring Esbit Cooperative Column (or EEAAARRRFFFIIBDDFDDEECC for short).

The Evernew 7 Foo Bo titanium windscreen Product EBY246 unboxed – and corrected! Part 1 of 2.
Forgive these TWO long posts, but if you are considering purchasing one of these, this discussion might be informative. I selected an unopened product – as far as I could tell – as the seal flap (on the plastic bowl rim) was unbroken.

Note the flaps of both coiled parts are out, not in. Here’s the brochure:

NOTE THEY ADVOCATE WEARING GLOVES FOR ASSEMBLY, AND TO KEEP THE FACE AWAY FROM THE PRODUCT.
It consists of two parts, which in my case were identical to each other – here shown 180* to each other.

Note that the two inside slits do NOT align with one another. This means that following the assembly instructions, THE TWO HALVES WILL NOT MATE i.e. with the flaps out as they instruct. Although they will mate by having one with the flap inside the assembly, this constrains the inner space. Either I was provided a product that was wrongly packaged, or more likely someone has decided for economy only to manufacture the one half, not realizing the mistake.
The problem is readily fixed by gently bending both flaps of one half (part) in the opposite direction, Then, when the two halves are fitted together, they mate with both flaps out.

So in the above photo, the upper half has both flaps up, while the lower half has both flaps down.

Here’s the two halves, one at left in small size using the closer flap, the other at right in large size using the further flap, with MulTi plate/lid and TriveTi, and Evernew 400 cup/pot. They won’t mate like that of course, but by having both small or large provides the option in diameter.

First, the smaller size using the closer flap is designed for the 400 cup/pot, using only one half ring with MulTi dish and TriveTi for Esbit:

[Kindly continue to Post 2 of 2 —>].