Esbit burner testing

[Matt Swider]

Thanks Dan, it was fun taking the data and seeing the comparison.  I won’t quit my day job though . . .

[Gary Dunckel]

Yes, Matt, you are pretty well stocked up for now. What I did with mine was to repackage 5 boxes into 5-packs, as I had mentioned. I then vacuum-sealed the other 5 boxes and stashed them on the shelf of my basement pantry. Although the boxes of 24 are already sealed in some cheap plastic, I figured a Foodsaver vac bag would ensure long life for the tabs. You might want to consider doing this too, as who knows how long we can get them at this price? Keep in mind that I’m a stockpile-type guy, especially when I find a great deal on something. You are likely more sensible.

No, you aren’t the only person that uses Coghlan’s tabs, but you might be one of the few that really likes them. I still prefer the original Esbit tabs for overall performance, but Coghlan’s are great for the price.

I’ve appreciated your reporting of your tests. When we all share info, we all learn a bit more. BPL is great for this.

[Matt Swider]

Thanks for the tips Gary.  Given equal pricing, I would buy Esbit first.  But to me the performance is not that much better to justify 2x the price.  I am not ready to do more testing right now, but I really think the big difference that makes Coghlan’s perform on par with Esbit is burning the Coghlan’s standing on the side.  It greatly reduces the ash and improves the burn.  I think it would likely be improved even on a slow burn, as in that case the air restriction is provided by the stove instead of the surface of the tab.  I will be making some monkey bread this weekend and I will see how it goes with the slow burn on end.

As far as storage goes, I am keeping mine in an ammo box.  It is likely not a perfect seal, but good enough to keep ones powder dry.  I think for the storage life of the tablets I have, which is anticipated to be less than 2 years, it ought to be good enough.  For on the trail storage I use skateboard wheel bearing cases.  They fit 4 tablets perfectly and weigh about 2g, if I can trust my scale.  A picture of an empty and a half full one.  Note the half full one does not have the lid all the way on, 4 tablets go right to the top.

 

I definitely have learned a lot on here from other people sharing knowledge, it is what makes the place worth coming to.

Matt

[Eric Blumensaadt]

OK, I confess, I’ve been lazy about re-testing with my Sidewinder CC and my Dan Yerski-like rectangular tray (which fits inside my Trail Designs Gram Cracker). Dan and I have stood on the shoulders of Brian Green in terms of his discovery about retaining the liquid residue from the combustion of ESBIT tablets.

I find it interesting that both Dan and I came up with the small tray idea independently. Great Minds and all that…

I’ll forego going up to the mountain for skiing tomorrow and do some serious ESBIT testing with my new Taylor digital thermometer IF it’s not too windy in my backyard. Supposed to be windy tomorrow but a west wind hits the front of my house, not the back.

One thing I’m doing that may not have been done with other Esbit testers is that I’ll be using a lid since this is how I boil water in camp.

FYI -> I used automotive aluminum muffler tape to close the corners of my ESBIT tray. Works fine.

[Bob Moulder]

I always test with a lid because that’s an extremely important component for overall efficiency. Without it, gobs of energy are wasted as water vapor.

If there isn’t a vent hole in the lid for inserting the thermometer probe, I drill one!

For consistency, I always try to position the thermometer probe in the same location, near the middle of the water and an inch or so off the bottom of the pot, securing it with some masking tape if necessary to keep it in place.

[Matt Swider]

The testing I did recently was with the lid on also.  My probe wires are rather small, and I was able to squeeze them between the pot and strainer lid without any trouble.  I did ponder trying to be sure I situated the probe the same way each time, but for my 4 pot test the pot is basically full, so I don’t suppose it mattered that much.

Not sure I would give up a day of skiing to test stoves though, that is dedication!

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

The tri wing esbit stove had the right idea to contain the liquid esbit but the cooling effect the pot support legs had on the esbit tray caused a small glob of esbit to remain after the flames went out.

The BGET was suppose to contain all the liquid esbut but….if the corners were not tight, the liquid runs out. Improvements were made by using Mr. __________ idea of folding the corners in the fashion of the “bread pan”.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Er, drill a hole in my lid? Hmmm… Maybe I’ll just make a pie pan temporary lid W/ aluminum tape “handle” to lift it. A hole in that disposable lid won’t bother me at all.

And yes, probe placement must be consistent for repeatable results boy someone testing my data. If it can’t be repeated it’s bogus in any scientific sense.

[Bob Moulder]

Unless you’re planning to sell as used gear and don’t want to diminish the value, a small hole in the lid affects efficiency in such a micro-minuscule way as to be insignificant.

I tested MiniMo boil times with the stock JB lid — which has pasta strainer holes, a drinking hole and I think maybe some other hole in the top — against the 4Dog lid with no holes and consistently found the boil times identical.

YMPWV — your mileage probably won’t vary :^)

 

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

I quote Dale Wambaugh:

take a look at Four Dog Stoves. He released a video recently that says that their stoves can boil 4 cup using a single Esbit in 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-92xtyvl8&feature=share&list=UU2y8-HLT8IgDZEF9_Lr3eJg

Is there any one here that can verify that a Fourdog stove can do the 4 cups on 1 esbit cube?

[Matt Swider]

It all depends on the water temperature at the start.  No doubt it can be done, but is he starting with 70C water?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

 

That is an old video that has been out there a while.  However, if you look at the video, he claims that they can boil 4 cups of water using ONE OUNCE of Esbit in 5 minutes (not one tablet).  Not hard to do at all.

 

[Bob Moulder]

That’s a pretty long video linked above, but I’ll save you some time and tell you to skip to 9:25 to see the relevant claim which is “one ounce of hexamine to boil 1 liter of water”.

Totally agree with Jon — four cups with 2 tabs (1oz = 28g = 2 tabs) is a piece of cake.

I’ve tried quite a few set-ups and have not been able to extract a boil of cold (~45°F) water with one 14g Esbit tablet. IIRC the best I could do consistently is ~180°F in one of my tests.

However, with my current combo using the OC 3-cup pot, MYOG pot holder and screen and legless BGET I have been able many times to boil 3 cups of cold water with one 14g tab, both on my deck and in the field. I can boil 4 cups easily with 1.5 tabs and (again IIRC… sorry I’ve done so many of these tests they’re running together in my memory), but I’m pretty sure I’ve gotten 4 cups of decently cold water up to 197°F with 1.25 tabs, or 17.5g of Esbit. [see edit below]

 

Edit: this post in another thread relates to the 4-cup boil… a full boil of 4 cups of 50°F water with 1.25 tabs (17.5g) of Esbit. I think that’s going to be hard to surpass at sea level. And both Dan Y and I discovered that an ideal pot/pot support/windscreen combo can be more efficient than a CC.

 

[Matt Swider]

Jon Fong saw my stove testing on this thread and was kind enough to provide me a Focus Fire 14 stove for testing.  I used it on the trail earlier today to heat water for coffee, and this evening I ran a 4 cup temperature rise test using two round Coghlan’s fuel tabs.  Water was 40F to start, and unlike my previous tests (Bad Engineer!!) I did something else different.  Rather than poor the cold water into my room ambient pot and then measure the temperature a few minutes later, I put the pot and water in the refrigerator.  Now there are two variables, although I am not sure how significant the pot being the the refrigerator before the test is.  Water mass is ~32 oz, while the pot mass is 2.4 oz, or less than 10%.  This made me wonder as I watched the temperature of the water rise much slower than with the Epicurean stove.

With the Epicurean stove I was seeing the temperature rise 15 degrees a minute during the sweet spot of the burn.  Here I was getting a maximum of 10 degrees a minute.  Consistent with that data is the tablets burned for 19 minutes in the FF13, instead of the 11 or so I got with the Epicurean.  Based on the final test data I don’t think the pre-chilled pot was a significant factor.

So let me state right here the Focus Fire 14 stove was designed to burn Esbit cubes, not round Couglan’s tabs.  I think in the Epicurean the form factor is not significant, but the FF14 is a tight little stove, and the round Couglan’s tabs placed parallel to the vertical ends may reduce the air flow to the point that the burn just can’t get cranking like it should.

So, now I want to run 2 more tests.  One with Esbit as a sort of a baseline, and the second with Couglan’s tabs oriented differently – No can do, the stove design does not lend itself to that.  The only other test to run is to see how much faster the Esbit works, and Jon has already told me he saw a 10 – 15 F degree increase with the FF14 over the Epicurean using Esbit to heat 4 cups of water.

So, it appears that as long as I burn Couglan’s tabs the FF14 is not the right stove to use.  I will say the burn was 100%- no unburned fuel.  A fair amount more ash than with the Epicurean, but absolutely all the fuel burned or reflowed into the pan.  With Esbit and heating water the FF14 is the way to go, but with my fuel supply for now I will be leaning toward the Epicurean.

Matt

[Matt Swider]

Well, I mistakenly thought the Focus Fire 14 was designed for speed, but I now realize it was designed for efficiency.  I will need to repeat the test above with all the variables the same as my first two 4 cup tests, including not leaving the aluminum pot in the refrigerator for prior to the test.  The maximum temperature I measured with the FF14 was 155F, which was likely very close to the Epicurean.  The Epicurean test over ranged my thermometer, but ended shortly afterward, and based on the Esbit burn with the Epicurean likely only went  to at most 165F.  During the last several minutes of testing with the FF14 I was removing the pot and windscreen to look at the flame, which certainly affected the maximum temperature I got with that test.

Stay tuned . ..

Matt

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Jon said:

That is an old video that has been out there a while.  However, if you look at the video, he claims that they can boil 4 cups of water using ONE OUNCE of Esbit in 5 minutes (not one tablet).  Not hard to do at all.

So that goes to show we are to take everything we read here with a grain of salt ;-)

Boiling 4 cups of water in 5 min. seems awful fast with esbit. ;-)

[Bob Moulder]

So that goes to show we are to take everything we read here with a grain of salt ;-)

Boiling 4 cups of water in 5 min. seems awful fast with esbit. ;-)

Dan, I figured out pretty quickly what I’m sure you figured out long ago, which is that speed and efficiency are not the same thing. The average person watching that video has no idea about all the parameters involved in an actual, objective test, nor any idea about what is merely pedestrian performance or really stellar.

@ Matt, please go to Bed, Bath & Beyond and invest $15 in a decent cooking thermometer with a probe. It’ll make things a lot less frustrating when testing. :^)

As far as pot temperature, our tap water is pretty cold so I fill it once to cool the pot a bit and then fill with the water I’m going to test with. Even then, the difference is truly negligible, but at least it saves the step of putting it into the fridge.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Dan, yes, I was thinking about this only the other day that I need to get around to it!

We are modifying our thermal gear for drone use at the moment. Possibly be ready by the end of the week for stand alone use without the drone attached (currently takes power from the drone). I’ll do my best to fit in a test soon for you.

Then, I definitely need to get around to deciding what stove/cooking gear I’m going to keep, I have a whole box of stuff, its nuts.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Adam, good luck on deciding what to keep and what to toss :-)

I was not able to edit one of my comments above so I’ll insert it here. It was concerning who came up with the idea of the bread pan corners that now makes the Brian Green Esbit Tray most efficient.

It was Rod Braithwaite, see 1st page of link:

<span style=”color: #0066cc;”>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=99066&startat=20</span&gt;

 

 

[Matt Swider]

I have been wanting to see how the FF14 did in my stove setup with 1 esbit tablet and 4 cups of water at 70F to compare with Jon Fong’s experience.  He was able to get water to around 200F.  Well as some of you know, I don’t have a thermometer that goes above 160F, so I was basically looking for a boil.  It did not happen.  At 15:15 I got a decent simmer, but by 17:00 the flame was dying and the simmer was gone.  Certainly hot enough for cooking and killing all the nasties, but not a bonafide boil.  Guessing my setup is pretty close to Jon’s in terms of efficiency, not bad for a home made cone, grease pot, and of course the right stove.   I like both the epicurean and FF14, I think the efficiency is close enough on the epicurean that I this will be my go to stove for trips, as it is faster and more versatile.  Glad I got to try the FF14 too, no doubt it will also get some use in my travels.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Matt, thanks for running the test.  The Focus Fire 14 was designed to see how to push the efficiency of burning Esbit up a notch.  The goal was to boil 4 cups of 70 F water and it got close , but no cigar.  It will heat the water up about 5 F hotter than the Epicurean.  The good news is that the FF14 adds margin to when you want to boil 3 cups of water.

Boiling 4 cups of water can be done with a single tablet of Esbit.  It will require an integrated, system solution which at the end o the day may not be worth the effort.  Still, it’s a fun experiment.  My 2 cents.

[Matt Swider]

Yes Jon, as I neared the end of this test and felt how hot my lid was I began wondering how much a piece of carbon felt on top would have helped the 4 cups boil.   Perhaps an experiment for another day  . . .

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

It’s that time of year when we have to get an update on the use of esbit and the use of the Brian Green Esbit tray. This thread has a wealth of inspirational info.

My recent tests show that I could boil 3 cups with 1 standard size esbit cube. Used a DIY windscreen/pot support and a Toaks 900ml pot with ridge added.

[Mole J]

that looks great Dan.

sleek and compact

 

[Matt Swider]

3 cups of 70 degree water or 35 degree water.  In a closed area or out in the environment?

 

BTW, nice looking pot support.

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