knife vs saw vs hatchet vs axe!

A concept: Leave No Trace.

–B.G.–

"First, why in the hell would you need this much wood? Second, why in the hell would you use this much energy?"

The first question remains a mystery. The second one you seem to have partially answered with your new saw and axe… but don't forget that carrying those things around takes energy too. If they're just for a survival situation, they're pointless—as you say, who needs that much wood?

"I guess it's testosterone… See who's the bad ass lol."

Nailed it. Reminds me of boy scouts when we used to compete over who had the heaviest pack. I grew out of that, thankfully.

First, there is no trace when we leave the campsite.

Do you know what is the #1 selling pocket knife REI sells? The Benchmade Mini-Griptilian. Why in the hell would you carry a 2.5" folding knife with a mediocre lock in the woods? That knife serves very little use on the trail. Cutting paracord and slicing open your mountain house package is all its good for lol.

I'm sorry, but adding 3 pounds to your pack for 2 very effective tools is not counterproductive. I've hiked 37 miles with a 60 lb rucksack. What I carry now feels like a bag of pillows.

> First, there is no trace when we leave the campsite.
Oh, but there is a huge trace. That huge tree which was obviously so loved by many woodpeckers is gone. I wonder how many nested in it for how many years, and brought up babies in it? All gone, just to feed a totally unnecessary huge fear-fire all night.

> Why in the hell would you carry a 2.5" folding knife with a mediocre lock in the woods?
Well, good question. Maybe it is seen as one UP on a small SAK? Maybe it is sufficient for the buyer – who does not need to waste hours chopping down trees? Maybe cutting paracord and slicing open food packages is precisely what the person bought it for? Btw – the lock on the Benchmade knives is quite good, quite enough for the reasonable uses of the knife.

This is Backpacking Light, not some mad survivalist Armageddon mob. We try to carry the lightest load we can, using skills instead of brute force and ignorance. And you know what? There are tens of thousands of us around the world, all quite happy and managing just fine.

Cheers

As Roger stated, there is definitely a trace, the question is whether or not it is an acceptable trace.

In certain places where the impact of humans is very minimal, cutting down a tree may be an acceptable level of impact. In most places where people hike/camp in the States, however, many other people will come along and will appreciate an environment where others have left as little impact as possible.

Now, on the idea of a knife vs a hatchet and saw, I agree. Big "survival" knifes often are not that great for much besides looking threatening, throwing into stumps, and adding weight. An axe/hatchet and saw on the other hand are great tools for building shelter, clearing trails, firewood, etc. In winter camps, I have appreciated having a folding saw to process firewood. As much fun as an axe or hatchet is, it seems to give less benefit for its weights.

I would again reiterate that there are very few places in the lower 48 where I think a building a big fire/cutting down trees is an acceptable impact.

Peace,

Garrett

I have no idea why anyone would spend so much time doing what you describe.

I'd rather be hiking, exploring and discovering.

I am curious, how many miles do you typically hike per day?

BTW I am happy you are on the forum. Just refrain from fighting with people who inherently disagree with you. We all stand to learn something if it stays civil.

I usually carry two Granfors Bruks small forest axes. I used to carry one as my primary axe and the other as my spare. Lately I've found that I get nearly twice as much work done by double wielding the axes.

It's all about technique. I start of by swinging the left axe three times and then my right axe two times. The reason is because I'm more coordinated with my right arm, so I have to compensate with my left arm 3/2.

One I've reached the inner heartwood of the tree, I transition to what I call the windmill approach. I'll extend both arms to my sides and start spinning in a circle. I then attack the tree without mercy.

Once I've established my dominance over the tree, I've found at this point it's better to work smarter rather than harder. I like to keep fresh gasoline in my garage so once per year in the fall, I'll bottle up all of my lawnmower gas and two stroke fuel into my Nalgene bottles. This gives me an opportunity to get rid of all this old fuel, spares me a trip to the river where I used to dump it, and I now have the ultimate fire starter and bug repellent.

I still carry a 9" bushcraft knife though although I save that for batoning through small forest animals as the axes were a bit overkill.

Last December you started a thread about backpacking solo that quickly degenerated into bears and firearms, with some very nasty comments being posted by you. Around the same time you started a thread almost identical to this "hatchet vs large survival knife?" where you belittled people who weren't as prepared as you. (For what I still don't know.) Now you are back with almost the same topic but this time you have upped the ante by bragging about cutting down and burning large standing deadwood in the first post. Why david, why? You already know the sort of response you are going to get on this site with that topic, yet you are back again. What is it you hope to accomplish here?

For what it is worth, so far your postings about Mountain House alternatives seem to be in good faith but your previous postings do have some people a little suspicious of your motives.

Ian, "david" and his "buddy" could learn a thing or 2 from you, that's for sure!

I'm gonna buy me another axe so I can use that windmill technique – simply brilliant! Will it work with my cheap Gerber hatchets? I can foresee the possibility of inadequate force vectors due to the shorter handles.

Yes, you gotta be careful with small animals and axes. You simply cannot believe the backsplash you get when you make a mis-lick on a chipmunk!

Wow, I'm less fearful of the woods already!

Don't feed the troll. I'm surprised Roger doesn't recognize this for what it is.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=97790&startat=100

Bob, the Granfors Bruks small forest axe has a longer handle and is more efficient than the Gerber hatchet. But as long as you are practicing your bush-craft there is no reason you can't cut some wood to extend the handles, strip some bark to make cord for lashing them on and then proceed to practice your dual-wielding skills around camp. Have at it.

In my opinion this is someone possibly from the opposite side of the "spectrum" they are pretending to be……sitting at home and stirring the pot. If so, please stop; you are not helping a thing . If not, I have nothing to add.

So… If someone builds a large fire, carries a firearm and a large survival knife… Their in total fear for their life and are scared to death of the woods? Pretty much… Dumb ass rednecks that don't have any business at all in the woods. Copy that…

Chill out.

After the last time you were here you should expect some push back.

It's up to you to prove them wrong.

If they are.

A large knife is very effective for survival. Can't skin a deer with an axe or do fine cuts. The whole idea of always carrying a large utility knife is to be prepared and knowing the knife can be used alone As your only survival tool.

If your stranded deep in the woods with no gear… How important is that knife now?

>> If your stranded deep in the woods with no gear… How important is that knife now?

To start, you'd have to get yourself into that kind of scenario. Which means hiking pretty far.

I am still curious about how many miles you typically hike in a day. There are typically two kinds of people: hikers and campers. Hikers like to be on the move, often covering over 20 miles per day. Campers like to stay at one place, often staying put for over 20 hours.

We mostly be hikers here, which is why we expend the least amount of calories possible carrying our loads. For chopping wood and staying in one place I see how an axe and saw could reduce the calories consumed.

Now, are you a hiker or a camper?

Pyromania manifests in numerous ways.

Lets get backpackingmight.com registered for all those heavily equipped

BACKPACKINGSCARED

I hike between 4 to 10 miles a day when I Go out. We tend to find a central position and stay at that site and hike during the day from that position. When we wake… Eat chow, pack up gear,hide our packs in the woods and go hiking. The trails we go to in north Georgia, some of the paths are pretty rough and lack good areas to set up camp. Especially in the Chatahoochee National forest. The trails are narrow, rocky and full of roots.

Let's substitute meat with kale chips and be so weak that we can't carry a pack over 20 lbs Lol.

If adding 3 More pounds to your light load is so detremental to your mission… You might want to join the gym and start training with power lifters. Seriously, that's seriously weak. I tend to not carry more than 30 Pounds. I bet a lot of you thi.k my Gregory Baltoro is a total waste and weighs 8000 pounds Lol.

I consider a knife a cheap insurance policy. If you don't have, don't to ask to borrow mine.