knife vs saw vs hatchet vs axe!

[Jim Colten]

There were 2 Sawvivor models. 15 and 18 inch. That looks like a 15.

[Ken Thompson]

Troll post there Roger. Not helping.

[George F]

David, thanks for the suggestion. If I did get a knife it would be a lot smaller, probably something you would not be comfortable with, but that one is a beauty. It is obvious you know your knifes and feel comfortable talking about them. As I am sure you noticed by now most people here don't carry much in the way of a knife, some none at all, so when you bring up the subject you don't get a lot of positive response. If you really want to get into the conversation maybe you could tell us about some of your other gear. Like, what do you carry for a shelter? It is still winter and I can't speak for everyone but I have time on my hands for talking gear.

[Jerry Adams]

6.5 inch Corona folding saw works for small limbs. 5.5 ounces

http://www.coronatools.com/item/rs-4040?referer=folding-saws

Jake's model is 7 inch which weighs slightly more, but that's good too

You can also use it to saw up snow so you can remove it to clear out a spot to sleep on

I think it might be a usable defense weapon?

[BPLwiia]

"I think a little push-back, considering the previous interactions, was to be expected."

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you think that the previous interactions were uncalled for, then don't emulate them. When you do, you're doing the very thing you condemn. You lead by example.

[J-L]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the pocket chainsaw. Here's the version I have:

http://tinyurl.com/matydkn

I got one for Christmas. It weighs 4.9 oz in its little stuff sack. I thought it was kind of silly, but I've since used it for cutting downed limbs to fuel a wood stove, and it works surprisingly well. I find it to be faster and much less tiresome to use than my small hand-saw. I've thought of bringing it along on trips where I can expect the wood to be quite wet, but I usually skip the fire and just read instead. I've got a sleeping bag after all…

Edited to shorten link to Amazon

[Richard May]

Interesting.

Everybody does their part. And to that end I think David did very well except for one outburst that apparently was deleted. A good improvement.

[Ian]

Some comments were deleted so anyone reading it now is missing the context.

You can't make personal attacks and expect to get slapped with money.

The conversation is in fact civil now so let's move on.

[Dean F.]

David (who took as his pseudonym the name of the master of military science fiction) is such an established troll on this forum that I'm not sure why anyone engages him any more. I mean, this is the guy who posts stuff like "get fvcked liberal." Not really much gray area, there. He clearly has self-image issues. The counter-trolling has been rather amusing re: windmill hatchets, C4, etc., but that's really just another way of feeding him. Frankly, he's getting into it.

If you want to see great counter-trolling, look here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=100021

Actually, it's hard to follow because the (presumed) troll eventually deleted all of his posts. But for a solid two pages he was making more and more provocative statements and everyone just kept politely answering his questions. His mounting desperation for a response was palpable. THAT'S awesome counter-trolling. Eventually, someone bit, though…

That said, to pay lip service to being on topic… yes, I tend to carry a "real" fixed-blade knife in blatant violation of UL principles- usually just a cheap little Mora, nothing hariy-chested. This is mostly due to emotional scarring from a single incident when I was wet, cold, miserable (indeed, likely hypothermic) and couldn't find any dry tinder or kindling to get a fire going with my little Leatherman PS4. So I consider it to be sort of a cross between a "luxury item" and emergency survival gear. But at this point I feel that I'm established enough in our community that if I say there's something I'm willing to carry even if it's a few extra ounces, then I deserve the benefit of the doubt…

Regarding survival, as long as I have a knife, a pot, and a way to start a fire (my bow-drill technique isn't up to snuff) I'm probably going to be ok. Well, until I starve to death, but that takes a while.

[Dave @ Oware]

When I am out fur trapping, carrying 12 large leg hold traps leaves no room for sleeping bags, tents etc. Since we have deep snow that precludes finding the small branches from trees, when it is time to camp I look for a likely spot where a tree might be buried and dig around a bit. When I find the top of a dead snag, I split it apart with my axe (I like a single bit 3.5 lb head, the flat head useful for pounding in pegs during cabin construction) and start the fire at the core. As it burns down the tree during night I do have to wake up and dig down along side it to stay next to the fire.

I recommend snow shoes at least 3 feet long so laid end to end they form a sleeping platform for unconsolidated snow.

For more reading
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TeachingLeaveNoTrace/064_principles.aspx

[Kattt]

"After my earlier attempts to draw david drake out, which failed, I have to be honest with myself and the community at large. I want a sheath knife. Nothing combat, a modest knife like the Buck Pathfinder or Woodsman say. Not UL, not practical, not at all necessary. I know if I had one it would be useless weight that would stay in my pack unless I needed it to baton a bagel or some cheese. Yet every time the subject comes up part of me wants to (and often does) head over to Amazon to check prices. I'm sorry, but there is something about a solid chunk of metal with one sharp edge that appeals to my very soul.

There, I've said it. I feel better now. Back to working on my pack and hoping I can keep these urges under control. Thank you for your understanding."

What a refreshing and honest post George. Thanks for that.

[Earl Gilbert]

I bought a Mora that I attacked to my Unaweep. I have a SAK that's atttached to a Photon mini light that I keep in my pocket and a Kershaw Ken Onion Leek that is in a hip belt pocket. I use the Leek the most, to open up foil packages and cut sausage. The other knives more of "in case", but I rarely use them. Funny, I never felt the need to take an axe on a hike.

[Anonymous]

For shelter I use a big Agnes copperspur and a warbonnet blackbird hammock.

Sleeping bag: Eddie Bauer first ascent 20°, or a summit sleeping bag liner for warm weather.

Sleeping pad: thermostat-a rest xtherm

Backpacks: Gregory Baltoro, Dueter air contact 70, osprey aether 50

Stove: msr reactor

GPS: sunnto ambit 3

Hardshell: Patagonia M10

Softshell: marmot minimalist

Boots: vasque st. Elias gtx, Salomon 4d gtx, salewa mountain trainer mid, gtx, asolo 520, lowa renegade gtx, danner ft. Louis combat.

Water bag: GEIGERRIG Hydration Engine with Sawyer filter attached.

Mid layer: marmot quasar hoody

Base layer: icebreakers 260 half zip

[Dale Wambaugh]

Yeah, we drink a different flavor of Kool Aid in these parts.

[Justin Baker]

The marmot minimalist is not a softshell. It's a rain jacket.

[Anonymous]

It's soft to me lol

[Jim Colten]

Hey George,

THANK YOU for that saw blade link. I was just about resigned to having to retire that saw. I ordered a couple of them (also more reasonably priced that what I've paid before)

[Matt Vezina]

I'm a big fan of hiking with a saw, I use it to clear back blow downs I encounter on the trail. I've seen a fresh path get trampled down within a few days of a tree falling so carrying a saw is a good way to counteract the trail widening. As far as firewood cutting I usually stick to the rule of if you can't break it by hand leave it.

The one I usually carry is just a cheapo folding saw by Coghlan's, think it's a 5 or 6 inch blade. It has some very aggressive teeth and will go through 4-5 inch branches with just a little persistence. It also weighs a whopping 5.6 ounces so I'm happy to carry it. Silky makes some excellent folding saws aimed at professional arborists but they're usually around $100 so I'll stick to the cheap one for the use it gets.

I've also carried the Sven Saw folding bow saw though it rings in closer to a pound so now usually stays home unless I expect to find big blowdowns, like an early spring hike where there's likely to be lots of cleanup from the snow. When it's needed that cuts like a champ, 6-8 inch trees are fair game if you cut from both sides. I think it's a bit hard to get replacement blades as they're not a common hardware store length.

[Ken Thompson]

See where this behavior can get you.

[Edgar H]

Hey George, if you get a Mora knife you will have a lot of value for little $ and weight.

Troll baiting is fun sometimes,  but I was hoping to hear about lightweight and effective cutting tools.

I like the ultralight,  leave no trace ideals,  but it’s funny to me how we have rampant consumption on one end and leave no trace on the other,  sometimes it seems like they are connected… I’m not saying that all backpackers are tourists with a big carbon footprint,  but that light weight and leave no trace can ideally meet with sustainable living, and lightly,  appropriately interacting with nature – in a way that would make sense to the original backpackers and human stewards of nature, the hunter gatherers of the world.

How about responsible use and interaction with nature? Not in parks with high traffic,  but in regular old,  ignored,  grungy nature,  like the national forest acreage that’s going to be clear cut next spring for instance and sold for a song.

We’ve got this dichotomy of “keep it pristine (and let’s all walk through it), and “I heard they logged that piece but never been there”

I wonder if people spent more time interacting with regular old damaged nature,  and approached it with a stewardship perspective,  if we could have a more holistic connection with nature…  Native Americans routinely burned back undergrowth,  they had a system that worked; fed wildlife with new growth, prevented canopy fires,  probably did a number on ticks and mosquitoes as well.

– If you carefully pile the branches around an established fire,  green invasive honeysuckle burns nicely, and it’s easy enough to control.

Sorry for the long post,  didn’t have time to write a shorter one.

[Todd Stough]

Ed where we hike it certainly seems some more active management would be useful.  There are many dead trees next to the trail, blown down hanging over the trail, falling all around the trail.  Just within a mile and half.  Right beside the parking is a 80 foot tall very dead pine that is just waiting to fall over.

I’m in the east and we don’t see many hikers and so forth.  I’m sure out west it is a lot different.

[Author]

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