Sierra Designs Tensegrity 2 Elite

nm

The design of this tent looks great. I like he flexibility and the porch for a lazy rainy afternoon. I've had such pleasant times under my hammock tarp in those conditions.

I just can't see purchasing this. The price is too high. I'm about to buy a ZPacks Duplex for about $100 more at about half the weight. It just doesn't make sense to me to spend so much on a tent that sags and isn't super lightweight.

Well it must be my incompetence with staking it out. ;-) I don't have any problem with my flat tarps.

Well as I stated, post some photos, you might be surprised…

nm

First and foremost: I'm not associated with SD nor do I receive or have received any renumeration/discount/etc from them (hell according to some posts I'm an idiot for spending that much on a Sil tent!). I"m also not a widely experienced backpacker compared to many here (UL/SUL). I just offered some pictures/notes with this new tent. Take it for what it is worth, wanted to share, perhaps I will not be so quick to post with future purchases, etal… To answer some of the questions (and I know this is a lively group with varied opinions/beliefs/etc:

@Samuel – not a shill for SD. I just wanted to share and participate with this incredible group – something to share that hasn't been shown on forums before for knowledge etal.

@John H – how does 20D material feel? – I'm not sure how to answer that quite honestly. Does it feel frail/fragile – no. Does it need to be taken care of a bit more than heavier weight material – absolutely. Until I get it on the trail I really can't answer that.

@kevperro – I don't know if the sag is an issue of the tent or me just not setting up it right (i.e. practice. My first non-free standing free tent. I probably didn't do it justice. Can't answer that adequately at this point.)

I believe that addresses the serious questions posed to date on this topic. Again, wasn't my intent to start any 'this brand/other brand' feud, was merely MY observations/opinions on something I just received to share with the group. I have been grateful for all the wonderful knowledge here and wanted to contribute where I could.

v/r

Actually, North Face had a nifty little tent of the same era and design as the Clip Flashlight. It too was a US made tent, called The June Bug. I got one in 1986… my son still uses it! It too was my first "lightweight" tent.

The price does seem extreme but the design is interesting. It might be good for people who tend to camp in the woods, not so much for those of us who deal with wind on a regular basis. But at least it is something different. It is nice to see a tent maker thinking outside of the few usual design boxes. As far as setting up on uneven ground – go floorless. I can set up over holes or rocks, as long as I have a spot to sleep I'm good.

It's always interesting to compare new designs that challenge the norm with what I already have. The comparison will either confirm my choices that work for me, or cause me to reach out and experiment. While I might choose not to buy someone's product, I can't see any reason not to give credence to their efforts. Every effort equipment designers make to create new product can lead to new insights about what might improve the utility and comfort of equipment. So thanks for starting the thread and the discussion. Personally I am interested in the Convert. It reminds me of a great integrated fly double wall tent I had from SD years ago. Loved that tent. Warm and cozy in the winter.

Glavin from SD here. Reading this thread with much interest, obviously.

1. The top seam is tensioned by longitudinal tension (head to toe, thus "tensegrity") which is why it does not need an outward facing guy line. It is a limiting seam, so top seam tension on this tent is not an issue in my experience. Top seem sag simply means it needs more longitudinally pull (tighten the awning and foot stake outs). The reason I love this design so much is because the "tensegrity" tensioning also make this design VERY forgiving of uneven ground, even "twisted" uneven ground. The fullly detached awning allows additional twist, dive and climb. I thought KP's pitch looked perfect. He could bull those puckers out by more longitudinal tension vs. tension on the foot dormer, but its up and looks good to me as is.

2. Also, lets not pre-judge the wind-worthiness of this shelter (frankly, what most people intuitively think will be strong isn't, and vice versa. Check out the wind tunnel tests at zenbivy.com/sierradesigns for some history on this relative to awnings). I would have no trouble taking this above treeline, and have done so

I'm not saying it's fully "alpine worthy", but I'm also not ready to say it isn't. It is easily capable of PCT, AT, etc, which is what this shelter is designed for. It's certainly capable of comfortably sustaining heavy wind + rain conditions. How much wind is the question…..wind tunnel testing is coming soon and that will give us a better idea, until then the only way to find out is to get out there and challenge it.

Details on my experience in the wind so far (I have not experienced HARD winds yet…):
The awning is, well, the awning, and it will blow around and lose volume under direct wind load. However, it is VERY strong since there is no pole to bend the fabric evenly takes the whole load, and the volume lost affects the gear storage under the tarp, not the body of the shelter which is protected a layer under. From the side, the opposition created through tensegrity will transfer wind loaded seams to the longitudinal seams and vice versa, so it SHOULD hold the wind well on the side, simply trimming the wind door (waterproof) up as side winds increase. Ive seen it hit pretty hard (maybe 20mph) but not really hard (30mph), so I don't yet know. I am expecting it to withstand 25mph of sustained wind (wind tunnel wind, which is fully sustained), and would not be surprised if it survives 30mph. When I get the results I will post them here.

Michael,

My single concern about this design is how well gear is protected under the awning if there is rain and wind. I'm prepared to pull gear into the tent if I am solo in a 2P, but may not be room in the 1P. Can you address that concern? Thank you.

fog and mist?

I’ve been reading these forums for about a year now and have finally decided to chime in. Full disclosure I’m relatively inexperienced (my first true backpacking trip was just last summer) so feel free to dismiss any opinions as those of an uneducated neophyte…

I just bought a Tensegrity Elite 1 this past week, am very jazzed about it and thought I would throw out some initial thoughts given that this post has been hovering on the front page for a while. Dallas has been getting continuous ice and rain for the entire time I’ve owned the tent so all of my takeaways are from setting it up in my office with velcro “stakes”. I feel like taking too much away from that kind of setup is probably unwise, but people seem interested so here you go:
1. The weight of the entire kit (including their stuff sack) came in at almost exactly 33 oz on my scale. Their stuff sack isn’t the lightest, but like the original poster stated it is nifty enough to consider carrying and that’s my current plan. I’ve been a little swamped this week but if anyone is interested I’m happy to breakout the weights when I get some spare time
2. It was a little difficult to pitch but a) it was my first time and b) I was using velcro stakes so that increased the level of difficulty. Will give more opinions after I can practice some more this weekend hopefully in a dry yard and not a mud pit
3. As far as the height goes I’m only 5’7” and I have space to sit up so it’s not a concern for me personally. I might not be the best test case though. If the gear closet proves inadequate as someone mentioned I have a fair amount of space at the foot end as well inside the tent. The gear closet is quite large though and that’s not a concern of mine right now. In fact that is one of the big surprises after just one setup, that gear closet tarp is HUGE. I’m not saying things can’t wet under there, but it sure feels like you have a lot of wiggle room
4. To who asked about the how the material feels, I’ve only owned two other tents – a Big Agnes Copper Spur and a Yama MG Terraform – and this fabric “feels” more substantial. But not so substantial that you can abuse it. But like the original poster said I guess that will get proven out over time on the trail
5. And lastly as far as the “wind worthiness”, I guess I’ll find out… I look forward to the wind tunnel tests! My goal is to get it out a few times in the next couple months though and hopefully encounter at least some bad weather. When that happens I can report what I find

I thought the design was intriguing enough to take a shot at and after my first office set up I’m really pleased – the shoulder width is as advertised and the gear closet is larger than I anticipated. If anybody wants to know anything in particular, wants to see some specific kind of picture or has any questions I’m happy to share where I can.

Jeff:

A couple of thoughts.

The awning is BIG, and your stuff is WAY under there. Check out the latest pics on the web (not everything was loaded when this thread began). Especially on the 2 person, the tarp is so wide it could practically fit another person lengthwise. Certainly, someone with a bivy sack would be living large compared to no tarp at all. So while the space is open, it is protected and large.

Now, if there is a significant wind + rain event, it won't be as protected as a fully enclosed area (like any open tarp compared to any tent), but even in those instances it would be hard to imagine a backpack sized area by the tent getting significant exposure.

Finally, what are you putting out there. My rule is dry stuff in, wet stuff out. So what's outside that needs protecting? Primarily boots. After that, it's all "wet " stuff: cook gear. Pack. Wet shells maybe. Climbing (fishing, whatever) gear. You could stuff all that in the pack, including the boots, and leave it right outside the door and it would stay dry in any conceivable condition. But it's not "protected". It's laying under a tarp.

The pics and video do a pretty good job of showing what it looks and feels like…..

NOTE: I just realized that the mountain pictures earlier were with an earlier version, and the tarp on the production version is larger, and comes all the ground. The images on the website are correct.

First, re: "Am I the only one noticing a concerning level of emotion regarding how other people chose to spend their money enjoy the outdoors?"

I suppose you could direct that comment toward anyone who criticizes a product, and in effect, you did. Are we only here to praise? Some obviously wish it were so.

KP,

I did not use the word, "shill," you did. When I want to use that word, I use the word, "promoter." Seems a little nicer, but was beginning to wonder the other day when looking at a finishing.com thread on galvanized roof coating, and the forum moderator got so frustrated he was using the word, "shill," with abandon. Unfortunately, promoters are part of the internet equation, and because they are just as difficult to spot as they are at a magic show, it's difficult to impossible to detect them – the result being that valuable posts by individual consumers who have used the product under real conditions get diluted in value when folks become very skeptical. AFAIK, so far it is a problem without a solution.

This product has been on the Gear Forum a number of times, going back to when M. Glavin introduced it sometime before it came out. I noted my strong criticism then, and won't repeat it. The highlight was when the forum moderator reponded to one of M. Glavin's post with the expression, "BS," and was promptly dubbed a "troll." Never a dull moment on BPL. Mr. Glavin ppears regularly in every thread about this tent. You can do a search and read all the threads if you like.

For an example of a very informative thread about a tent, you could look at: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=100402

I'd love to see more threads on BPL like 'Thru-hiking my tent on the CO CDT', More often we see, 'I just pulled the trigger on a Maximo Super Whatsits and here it is set up in my back yard."

Your several photos were quite informative. But the last photo on your 2/28 post suggests that the tent is quite cramped, while the photo on Mr. Glavin's post suggests it is quite roomier. So I tend to believe you when you say you are not a promoter. Mr. Glavin is not a "shill" either, because he has always acknowledged working for Sierra Designs, with great vigor and enthusiasm I must say, especially when he appeared on the Outside cable channel. But in the conditions he pictures above, I'd way rather be in the other tent shown.

All:

Glavin from SD here…..

I got the wind tunnel test videos today, but for some reason we cannot open the files so I have NOT seen them yet! I am, however, able to show the screen grabs from the first frame of video which show a Tensegrity 1, "tarp" into the wind, at 22.1MPH sustained:

Another shows the Tensegrity 2, side into the wind at 33.8MPH sustained:

We should probably be able to figure out our file issue soon, and as soon as I get the video, I will edit it and post it on Vimeo, and link to it here.

So while the jury is still out, this looks VERY promising that this shelter performs exceptionally in hard winds……

More later….

Here is the link for the first two tests….

Very interesting.

It is surprising how much of a beating it can take.

Do you run a "duration test"? Say 20 mph for a hour to see how stitching and fabric holds up over time?

Thanks Michael.

Michael, I think it's awesome that you folks publish that video. If nothing else because, as you mentioned in the tent video the other week, sustained 30 mph is a lot more wind than most folks think it is.

Last night my wife and I were discussing tents for backpacking with our forthcoming kiddo, and she said (I paraphrase) "I'm sick of all your f&*(*&% tarps, I want a real tent." The Tensegrity is high the list.

… for answering my questions, Glavin.

Glavin- Those wind tunnel videos are fun! Thanks for posting.

Yes thanks!!

Very interesting to see. I wish I was better at following when you were talking about all the seams and such.

Really interesting to see. I especially like (to paraphrase) "you can see why when the wind is over 35MPH, you want your campsite to be… uh… somewhere else"

I know it isn't possible, but I would love to see some of the other guys tents/shelters in the wind tunnel that are so well thought of. That would be very interesting. Thanks for posting the video, it dispels much of the "discussion" surrounding the design.

Cool, thanks for sharing. I will admit, the tent looks to do a lot better than I expected, but I still think a more buttoned up design would put less stress on the stakes under the same conditions. I am assuming the guylines are bolted to the ground in the video?