Feb 19, 2015 at 8:53 pm #1325953
My cook set up is not the best.
You could put it in the SUL category, but it is nowhere near that of can stove system.
However, I like to have a pot big enough to reheat a meal and make a cup of coffee or tea all in one.
No need to do two boils.
Now that I have a 20 ounce pot, I'm wondering how it and my cooking system stacks up to others???
While you may feel 12 ounces is enough, many don't. Here is your chance to see how your cook system stacks up as well.
***To keep everything on an even playing field with both esbit, gas or wood users this will include your total set up except your gas bottle or esbit package/ weight.***
Everything else counts including the lighter.
Add your system up in grams and divide it by the pots (total) capacity in milliliters.
It will be a decimal to which will = the %.
My system total is 102 grams with 591 ml = .1725 or 17.25%
Please feel free to post your results and pictures of your set up.Feb 19, 2015 at 9:26 pm #2175947
Just to be clear, do you mean the total capacity of the pot, or the usable capacity?
If you mean total capacity, my esbit stove & can pot system weighs 2.643 oz or 74.00 g (+ .39 oz/11 g for a mini Bic) and holds 700 ml maximum capacity, so my ratio is 0.1214 or 12.14%
The components: Titanium windscreen, base sheet, dripless Esbit burner, stakes, and pot lid; cut-down all aluminum BPA-free flat bottom ribbed beer can pot; reflectix cozy and cozy lid.
Set up and ready to go.
Can also be configured to burn wood.
Everything packed into the can and cozy.
Weight = 2.643 oz = 74.00 grams (+ .39 oz/11 g for mini Bic)
Performance: Boils 500 ml of 70* water in 6:30 minutes using 12 grams of Esbit fuel.Feb 20, 2015 at 7:13 am #2175996
Its really a loaded question ,for this reason.
What are you actually going to do with a pot?
If you are just going to boil water in it and not dronk or eat out of it, then a beer can setup life David G outlines above is fine.
If you are going to rehydrate in tbe pot and/ or eat out if it, the beer can rigs pretty much suck at that.
Then there is the question of durability and including the weight of all those freezerbags you use on the trip.
Not really knocking Beercan/ freezer bag setups, but my point is the various cooking styles DO require more of sone pots or others.Feb 20, 2015 at 7:38 am #2176001
Well, the bigger the pot/can is the better ratio of weight you "can" get,
This is not really about what you do with the pot, but more about your pot set up.
There are some people who always use rocks and may have a different lighting system that can be lighter than a a mini bic and maybe even a lighter system than a can stove?
Besides, this is the SUL page.
Not too many true SUL hikers go with Caldera systems unless it's a tiny low volume Sidewinder.
It would be nice to see how those and other systems stack up with others in this comparison.
There have been some sub 2 ounce systems that folks here have created but don't use because of reliability.
So I'm sure whatever they went to may or may not be the lightest ratio system they could use.
However, they may not even know that until they see what others use which may open their or others eyes to a better lighter system.
Boiling water for food is still boiling water for food and going SUL is not just about how light the system can be but what you can do with it, (volume vs pot size and different cooking styles, pot strength). I just thought it would be nice to see how my system stacks up and if there are any other systems that would be more like my holy grill, but never knew it.
there are systems out there that blow away David's set up.
David may see it and like it so much that he switches to that system?
I've heard of a 10.44% that hasn't been posted yet.Feb 20, 2015 at 8:07 am #2176007
Arron, I am fully AWARE this us the SUL forum. .SUL or not, everyone DOES NOT use freezer bags.And not adding the weight of tge bags is a.bit intectually dishonest at best
The cookpot ALONE is just o.e oart if a larger picture. Some simplistic weight vs gram metric does not tell the whole story.
But, you want a simplistic weight vs gram meyric ? Ok, I'll bite..
I can carry a Snowpeak 600 pot that weighs 1.8 oz. With a roaster pan Al lid, it weighs 2 oz.
I can cook eat drink,out of it and it holds 22 oz of water for boiling no problem. Its Titanium.and cost $16.
No freezer bags. No cozy(use my sleeping bag) And before you harp about "bear " problems that is not an issue as we are just talking about capacity vs weight right?
Now add a Ti wing stove, TOAKs Ti windscreen and an Al floor for another 1 oz.
Setup correctly, the tapered sides of that pot allow it to do anything a Caldera Cone can do it terms of efficiency.
So, 3 oz for stove and cookpot.
84g ÷ 600ml = 14%
Now ,lets talk about the weight of those freexer bags everybody pretends does not exist..;)Feb 20, 2015 at 8:16 am #2176009
What's the difference in just dividing it the other way?
This system you mention did not include a lighting system.
If you use a mini bic, that puts you at 15.8%.
Thanks for sharing.
But is that even what you use or are you just making an attempt to bash this post because it is a SUL post and you think it's dumb?
If you don't want to play, then go away!!!Feb 20, 2015 at 8:31 am #2176014Art …BPL Member
my SUL cook set up is No Cook.
if I'm travelling that light I'm moving a bit fast and long, and not taking the time to cook. I would rather put that 12 oz toward clothing and shelter.Feb 20, 2015 at 8:46 am #2176023
We have a winner.
One quart freezer bag for no cook hydration at 1000m ÷ 14g = 1.4 %
And, if you lay the bag out in the sun, the food is even a warm..:).
Gee, this "race to the bottom" stuff in terms of weight is FUN..;)Feb 20, 2015 at 10:08 am #2176049
So I swapped out the ti base sheet and pot lid for aluminum foil, which gets total Esbit system weight down to 75.4 grams = 10.77%. I kind of prefer the ti base sheet because it gives the option to burn wood, but for a straight Esbit set up it's more than is needed to catch possible drips from the burner.
I view the freezer bags as consumables rather than part of the base weight because they are packaging for the food, and there's going to be packaging weight for the food even if you're not cooking the freezer bag way. And packaging weight varies a great deal depending on what kind of food you bring and your style. For example, if you eat oatmeal for breakfast you can have a bunch of little packets in a 1 qt. baggie, or you could empty all the little packets into the baggie and toss the packet material. Similarly, even if you're bringing a non-freezer bag macaroni and cheese dinner you still take it out of the store box and put it in a baggie. Or if you go with freeze-dried meals instead of freezer bag you still have those heavy foil packages.
In addition, there's the issue of deciding how many baggies to include in the weight of a cook system because it totally depends on the length of your trip.
So packaging is a variable that can't really be nailed down precisely. Combined with the fact that there will be some kind of packaging with your consumables regardless of cooking method, it makes more sense to me to include the freezer bags in the consumables weight.Feb 20, 2015 at 10:41 am #2176061
Very good explanation of the freezer bag weight allotment. Thank You.
And, to Arron. I was remiss in referring to your grams per ml metric as "dumb".
"Overly simplistic" describes it better.
If you want the metric to have any meaning, it should be broken down into classications of use.
1)Any.single fueled setup that you can cook in/eat out of..
2)Any single fueled setup that you hydrate in a cozy with hot water.
3)Any no cook setup.
Within the above framework, you can compare apples to apples.Feb 20, 2015 at 11:01 am #2176071toddBPL Member
@funnymoLocale: SE USA
I like these threads – I usually learn something from them.Feb 20, 2015 at 11:22 am #2176076Jon FongBPL Member
@jonfongLocale: FLAT CAT GEAR
A SUL cookset using Esbit
1 pie pan
1 sheet of foil
3 rocks, 2" tall (free)
1 BIC mini Lighter
Windscreen? find a sheltered spot
Make sure that the ground is level
Handle? who needs one, your SUL, use a mitt or bandanna
13.3 grams including the lighter 500 ml capacity
grams/ml = 2.66%
grams/ml = 0.46% if you rub two sticks together and use hair as a fire starter.
Do I win?Feb 20, 2015 at 2:24 pm #2176156Don A.BPL Member
@amrowincLocale: Southern California
I always wondered about the ideal rock height. Jon, you're the "cook master."
I just wasted a few hours looking at my cook set-up. Probably not a total waste since I find it useful to do some re-thinking occasionally. I use a Calder Keg set up with a custom esbit holder for the round hex tabs. Sticking with Aaron's original criteria my kit weighs 87g and holds a max of 750ml giving me a score of 11.60%
In reality the kit I actually carry is 155G giving me a score of 20.67%
The spoon seems to be an essential part of the kit as does the carry sack. The pot capacity kind of skews the numbers because I never heat 750ml of water. At the most I'll heat maybe 400ml of water. As usual everyone's orange/apple is different.Feb 20, 2015 at 3:05 pm #2176175
The following link is to my 1 oz cook kit I put together:
I have had success cooking 3 or 4 different meals with just this much water in temps high 30s and above with just the little esbit tabs or a tealight cup of denatured alcohol. My favorite part is the can is durable enough to be anywhere in my pack without getting crushed.
I received criticism, which i took constructively, for that setup. For my purposes it has managed to work for me without fail.Feb 20, 2015 at 3:27 pm #2176185
Nice cookset. Well done.Feb 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm #2176204
Its definitely not for everyone – but neither is sleeping on a 1/8 pad cut to torso length with no pillow. For solo stuff, its good enough for me to add a small hot meal with whatever cold stuff I am eating. I don't need more than 10 oz of water for ramen or noodles.
In response to Art saying that no cook is lighter than a cook setup – has anyone calculated the weight difference between dehydrated foods and ready to go meals? For example, oatmeal weighs less than a poptart. You can to count water of course, but whether you carry cooking water depends on water source availability.Feb 20, 2015 at 7:33 pm #2176243Ryan SmithBPL Member
@violentgreenLocale: East TN
"For example, oatmeal weighs less than a poptart. "
True, but the poptart is going to have a lot more calories than the oatmeal. So maybe it's a wash.
RyanFeb 20, 2015 at 7:48 pm #2176247Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> but the poptart is going to have a lot more calories than the oatmeal.
Is it really?
I think you would need to quote measured figures to convince me.
CheersFeb 20, 2015 at 7:54 pm #2176249IanBPL Member
"I think you would need to quote measured figures to convince me."
You know, I was just at the store and I could have grabbed a box of pop tarts while I was there. I really wish you guys would give me more warning before you all start double dog daring each other on the SUL forum.
I'm in the Pop Tarts have more calories per oz camp.Feb 20, 2015 at 8:44 pm #2176257David ThomasBPL Member
@davidinkenaiLocale: North Woods. Far North.
Pop tarts, 200 calories, 50 grams, 4.0 calories/gram:
Oatmeal: 150 calories, 40 grams, 3.75 calories/gram:
Advantage: Pop tarts. But only by 7%.
A pat of butter on the oatmeal, and it wins.
Edited to add: any packaged granola is a little higher in calories/gram, is no-cook, and not so off-putting as a pop tart. But I'm still going to advocate for oatmeal cookies for breakfast. With craisins or raisins in them for some fruit and nuts, butter or oil for the calories. But mostly because I like to warm up by hiking and that's a breakfast I can eat as I hike.Feb 20, 2015 at 9:17 pm #2176263
I want to point out that only people who subscribe to BPL would appreciate this discussion board. Its so funny (in the best way) that people measure the calorie per ounce of breakfast food.
I want to say I didn't think about the two before I posed the example. You guys rockFeb 20, 2015 at 11:27 pm #2176271
I swapped out the 700 ml pot from my earlier post for a 900 ml pot, which brought the weight up to 86.7 g.
86.7/900 = 0.9633%
Feb 21, 2015 at 5:24 am #2176286toddBPL Member
@funnymoLocale: SE USA
I've taken a version of your setup on trips a few times and it works exceptionally well w/ the Ti-wing and a tealight for alcohol.Feb 21, 2015 at 5:58 am #2176291
but a bit less expensive is to use a 10 oz Diamond Almond tin.. Pretty durable, too.
I need more water capacity so the 600 ml Ti SP Trek bowl is about as small as I will go. The overall shape and durability is hard to beat for me as well.
In terms of weight vs capacity, Looks like Jon's "three rocks and a pie pan" is still the frontrunner..lolFeb 21, 2015 at 10:37 am #2176339IanBPL Member
My how things can change in a year. I remember that thread but at the time, I was heating up 16oz of water at night. Last summer, I modified my meals so I only use 8oz per meal and have been on the prowl for a 400ml SUL kit as I try to transition from UL to SUL this coming summer.
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