Feb 23, 2015 at 4:30 pm #2177167
"Like the grease pot, I was aware of people using the blue diamond almond can but I've yet to use one until today. I was in the market for something that was in the 10fl oz total capacity range so I could boil 8fl oz of water and still have a little room to prevent boil over. I was previously considering the Snow Peak ti bowl or their 450ml mug, but after realizing that it met my weight/capacity requirements, and the $3.24 price tag, I knew I had a winner."
Ian, is that can the same weight as Jeremy's?Mar 24, 2015 at 5:26 pm #2185689Mar 24, 2015 at 11:17 pm #2185786
Also interested in the answer to this question.
Also, what happens in an esbit stove like a BGET where the tray holds the liquid in, does the liquid recrystalise after it cools if it doesn't get burnt out?
Can you re-light the crystals later on or is it too difficult? Do you just put a new tab on top, light that, and then it gets the crystals burning (thus recovering some of the energy from them)?
Dan; I've seen people use little containers for their esbit stands (eg I think trail designs has a mini plastic one), or snap lock bags. What about a Tyvek pouch? Cuben pouch, Eg hybrid cuben turned inside out so the face fabric deals with the sharp edges?
If there's energy to be recovered for the next boil from the crystals then it might be worth investing the weight on longer trips on a suitable container to store it all.Mar 25, 2015 at 12:23 am #2185789
O Ye Of Little Faith!
I've burned my share of Esbit fuel. A month ago I bought a case of ten boxes of it to give to a friend for the PCT this summer.
I normally use a titanium wing stove. In fact that is so critical to my use that I keep a new spare one in my warehouse of critical backpacking gear. If the Esbit fuel tray is sized right for the fuel cube, then there will be only a drop or two of liquid fuel burning in the tray. In other words, it burns up almost as fast as it melts. With other Esbit burners, this may or may not be the case. I generally let the cube burn up, and I adjust the amount of heating or cooking to consume that cube that is already started. There are exceptions. While I am in camp, sometimes I burn a cube halfway, then blow it out. I will relight it ten minutes later for more cooking. I don't find it difficult to relight the crystals. Or, if I have a lot of cooking to do, sometimes I will split a cube in half, then lay a half cube on top of the old crystals from the last burn. Whichever, I normally burn up the cube by the time I break camp after breakfast. In the rare occasion when I have a half-burned cube still sitting around, I stuff it back into the Esbit packaging (plastic blister and foil). Then I stick that back into the box of new Esbit cubes. The empty wing stove is folded and placed into the Esbit box as well, and there are no sharp edges or corners at all. That box goes into a plastic bag to hold in the Esbit stench, and that goes into my backpack for transport. I can't quite imagine using expensive cuben fiber anything just to haul Esbit around.
So, for me, a suitable Esbit container might be a plastic bag with my aluminum foil wind screen wrapped around it.
In a completely different situation, I carry two rounds of Esbit fuel with me in a real emergency kit. All it has are two rounds, a steel bottle cap as a fuel tray, a book of paper matches, a square of foil as a wind screen, and a folding handle titanium Sierra cup. There, I am only interested in heating one or two cups of water, and I don't worry about Esbit liquid or crystals or anything like that.
–B.G.–Mar 25, 2015 at 3:56 am #2185797
Cheers B.G., great info!
I've only ever let them burn right out so had no idea what would happen if it was blown out…
I'm looking forward to more Esbit lovin'Mar 25, 2015 at 8:43 am #2185852
Hey Bob, good explanation of your usage. So many times we only get "part of the story" from contributors in other threads on esbit.
I suspect the Trail Designs Cone Esbit system is the best all around set-up and the Tri-Wing would be second best.
I have two esbit triwing stoves. It's my preference to have burner and pot support integrated for a one piece stove.
I'm trying my best to like esbit as a fuel but can't get past the little crumbs and crystals. They have a tendency to get into the little nooks and cranny's of a kit and on my hands. Yes, I know…fiddle factors, be careful and all the other things we think about. Alcohol evaporates so quickly and leaves no residue. The esbit crystals just hang around ;)
We have to adapt….so we use the 4 gram tablets for our needs to eliminate blowing out. Use only the amount of 4 grammers needed. Practice, practice and practice.
Using your box of esbit for storage of the wing stove sounds very practical, I like it!
When I look at this photo I cringe :-))) I now know not to blow out the fire….let it burn out or use the 4 grammers.Mar 25, 2015 at 9:01 am #2185863
The BGET(Bob Green Esbit Tray) esbit trays I folded up yesterday turned out nice. I tested one with a full size esbit. The residue left in the tray was a small amount of "soot" no gummy, yucky residue. That was only one test burn with pot on top of a pot support. Same pot support used in a recent video on the mini esbitmizer.
They are fragile, so I sent along some storage containers for the ones I sent out today.
So when we think SUL, we need to keep in mind the accessories needed for a SUL item such as the BGET. We need a cardboard box to contain the esbit fuel packs which is also used to store the plastic and foil from the single esbit cube, a storage container for the BGET. The storage container for the BGET will contain any crystals that will be present if you blow out the remaining fuel cube.
I'd like to hear more from those that use partial, blown out fuel cubes.Mar 25, 2015 at 11:48 am #2185927
"BGET(Bob Green Esbit Tray)"
Is that Brian Green's brother?
–B.G.–Mar 25, 2015 at 3:54 pm #2186009
Definitely, the containers etc are a conundrum.
I'm keen to invest some time into thinking about this for Esbit. Although the stink of Esbit gets to me a little, the safety of the fuel is a big bonus.
I know there are advances in alcohol stoves, eg your Starlytes with carbon wick to stop spillages from the stove, but there are still other potential hazards associated with them, especially for inexperienced users (I do a lot of work with Scouts, training in Bushwalking skills and leadership for example). For example, getting fuel from container to stove is a risky moment in the process-again Starlyte and XL model reduces this. And some fuel bottles are safer than others, but the better ones, eg the Trangia ones, weigh a ton, are expensive. I know I've had spillage issues in the past despite using alcohol stoves of various incarnations at least probably 500 nights of use now since the age of 11, and observing hundreds of more uses by others in my proximity at a campsite. Even microspillages are dangerous. I've seen accidents…ranging from small fires in leaves and bark around the stove, to people lighting equipment up, to one person lighting up his hand accidentally-incidentally he was our 15 year old troop leader when I was a Scout…he was so experienced even at that age it wasn't funny, and he managed to burn himself. And of course, we now know that some alcohol stoves have managed to cause wildfires by experienced users in the US…I shudder at the thought…this is bound to happen in Australia at some point too. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to recieving your Starlyte XL in the mail soon on that front. I think just by reducing the number of fillings compared to most other burners by 2/3, it reduces 2/3 the number of potential spillage accident risks. If most people fill their burners at home and that lasts their overnight or two night walk, then the risk goes down further again as they aren't refilling in the bush.Mar 25, 2015 at 4:00 pm #2186010Don A.BPL Member
@amrowincLocale: Southern California
FWIW I don't use the cubes but my partial, blown out fuel tabs go in a 3×4 zip lock along with my stove, lighter and unburned tabs. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I've never had a problem with damage to the bag from the sharp edges on my stove even after 3 weeks+ on the trail with daily use. Sometimes I think we over think this stuff and assume problems where none exist.
Regarding the crystals that form on blown out tabs/cubes, I've found it's like super dry tinder alowing you to relight the tab in an instant. If I don't relight my tab I just throw it in the bag and when I feel like fussing I'll do a burn using the bits and peices of accumulated fuel.
Trail designs has a little one cup Gladware container I think they still sell with their Caldera Keg-GVP system. I stopped using mine becuse I found the plastic bag better for my purposes.Mar 25, 2015 at 4:41 pm #2186022
Adam, it would be nice for every scout to have a fuel absorbing stove that was filled by the Scout Master. We would then hope they could be careful enough to light it with butane lighter. :-) I would not trust them with matches.
Anything that is burning is a hazard with scouts ;)Mar 25, 2015 at 4:49 pm #2186025
Don, your photo makes it look like you are on the track to making a tasty dessert.
–B.G.–Mar 25, 2015 at 4:53 pm #2186027
I concur Dan.
In South Australian schools, its compulsory that a teacher or hiking leader does the filling, in a "fill area". They all use full on trangias, trangia fuel bottles. There's still a hazard there with those burners, of course…you now have a hiker walking back to the stove area with a trangia burner ready to trip and throw fuel everywhere! Or if they screw the lid back on, they have to sit there and unscrew it, potentially spilling fuel in that action. We don't even have this rule in Scouts yet though, even though its what us in the Bushwalking Team regularly recommend to other leaders (better than them accidentally filling a still hot burner…). I'm hoping to change some of these things soon.Mar 25, 2015 at 5:05 pm #2186029
Don, thanks for your input.
So many times we see mention of the Material Safety Data Sheet information given on the contents of the esbit in it's solid form. I speculate that 9 out 10 store the little plastic bags of esbit in their pot. I suspect some of the crystals and powder will get on the inside of the pot and be eaten (eventually) If a drop or 2 of alcohol gets in the pot, it will evaporate by the time the water is poured into it.
There are those that don't store it in their pot ;)
Nice photo of the crystals…it's cool to watch them form as the tabs cool.
How do you like the aroma of the smoke when they are blown out? The smoke is so dense there must be minute crystals that form in the air and fall like snow to the ground. I have had my nose go into convulsions when accidently getting an unexpected whiff of it LOL
Your esbit tray looks sturdy/stout with well rounded corners that would be easy on the plastic storage bag. The Bob/Brian Green Esbit Trays I made recently are made of .002 material(1 gram) and are fragile to the extent they need to be in a rigid container.Mar 25, 2015 at 5:18 pm #2186040
Adam, watch the scouts get their eye brows/lashes singed while making fire with canister stoves:
Was it the scout "leader" that was at fault?
It's an eye opener to how critical it is to take our time and "think safety" especially when it involves chemicals(crystals) near out food stuffs.Mar 25, 2015 at 5:44 pm #2186051
Not sure if right link Dan? An "easy alcohol stove"?
But yes, canisters can be dangerous too, I agree. At least, in Aus, the old puncture can stoves are well on the way out, phew. There is a classic case (used in Bushwalking leader training as an example) where a school group had one of these cause a fireball, significantly burning a kid. Only the fact that the leader was very experienced (hired in by the school for the trip) and was able to take quick and decisive action to get the kid out to safety…I shudder to think what would have happened if she or another person of great experience wasn't there in a relatively remote place (still took a few hours to get to professional medical care).
The other day our government issued a press release recalling a certain type of cheap butane canister stove, the type of which sells for $20 for standing camps in cheap camping stores. I know lots of Scout groups use them for standing camps. Our State scout HQ in response also sent out a release temporarily banning them. Good move.
No system is perfect.Mar 26, 2015 at 7:00 am #2186233
Ok, got the right link. Shows a scout group having s contest. Group leader is standing right there supervising. He's the ring leader, scouts are in a ring ;-)
It's good to hear your state has taken measures to prevent those type of accidents. The video shows how "operator error" is at fault.
So in the case of the crystals, I will not allow them to form, no operator error here;) I'll use 3 four gram tablets to heat 2 cups, let them completely burn out. The four gram tablets don't stink ;)Mar 26, 2015 at 7:04 am #2186237Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
and that's why I don't use white gas stove
plus they're too heavy
funny that Boy Scouts allow them to be used. Just about any stove would be safer.Mar 30, 2015 at 8:12 pm #2187631Jake DBPL Member
definitely seen many whisperlite fireballs like that from people who overfill the pan. If they had been concentrating more on what they were doing instead of a race with fire 2 inches from each other they might have realized they had the valves open way too long. especially with the newer versions with the wick inside the pan you barely need any gas.
haven't used my whisperlite since I got a coleman 2 burner for car camping and canister stove for backpacking.Apr 3, 2015 at 10:23 am #2188758stefan hoffmanMember
@puckemLocale: between trees
I kinda like the metric, it gives me another number to set as a goal. I think 10% is a reasonable number to go for. So lets see what i got. I really dont like windscreens, and i get by fine without one 95 percent of the time. So dont knock it, its personal choice. Here is my kit.
Myog alcohol stove and stand 11g
Zelph 2cup fosters 20g
Myog carbon/alu spoon 3g
4oz fuel bottle 6g
Mini bic 11g
I could shed weight on the lighter just to get this metric down but that would be silly cuz i use a bic for plenty of other things like smoking and burning cordage ends and lighting real fires. The spoon i made is really solid and a full 5" long for under 3g, i am really proud of it, and i might put some pics up soon. Many folks here left out a utensil, which seems unrealistic.
So thats 51g for 473ml….10.78%…..just missed. Oh well.
I dont think most people included the fuel bottle in alcohol setups. The fuel bottle depends on the trip and usage, but i figure i had to include it because the system doesnt boil very well without fuel. I use a little soft baby food packet….love those lil buggahs.Apr 3, 2015 at 10:55 am #2188777Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
My minimalist cook kit is a 450ml Ti mug, an Esbit Ti wing stove and fuel, aluminum foil for windscreen and lid, and a folding Ti spoon. Great for hot drinks, oatmeal, or soup.
The next ratchet up is a 600ml Ti pot, Starlyte alcohol stove and fuel, aluminum flashing windscreen, folding Ti spoon
What usually ends up in the pack is the 600ml Ti pot and folding spoon and a Soto canister stove and fuel. Light weight is fine when you need to trim everything down for a long trip, but for overnights/3-day, I like hot and quick.
Functionality is more important to me than the ratios.Feb 14, 2016 at 12:56 am #3381941
Sooo, by SUL I assume we are not talking about even the smallest Trail Designs Ti Sidewinder stove (for a 3 cup pot & lid) and ESBIT W/ Brian Green tab holder? That’s my setup and I guess on this sub-forum it would be considered merely UL, no?
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE… I just remembered , I have one of those 3 legged, folding ESBIT holders that I got here at BPL when there was a store. I use heavy duty foil for a windscreen and keep it in my daypack for making soup for lunch. Izzat SUL?Feb 21, 2016 at 8:43 am #3383494Dan YBPL Member
Eric, I can’t picture you using anything but a Caldera Cone for a windscreen :-)
Bob G. is famous for using the tri-wing and saving his little leftovers of esbit.
A DIY BGET works great to maximize the efficiency of the tri-wing.Oct 22, 2016 at 4:50 pm #3432389
ESBIT COOK SYSTEM
1 STOVE- 2.0 oz. -> ti Caldera cone & storage sleeve, BGET type fuel tab holder & ti base plate
2. FUEL- 9.5 oz.-> 17 ESBIT tablets (& foil lined coffee bag for odor-free fuel storage) This is for 7 days, 2 hot meals/day)
- 2.9 oz.-> 3 cup Open Country anodized aluminum pot & aluminum “pie pan lid”
- 0.7 oz.-> plastic drinking/measuring cup
- 0.5 oz.-> plastic Ziplock fridge bowl (cut down a bit to fit inside the pot)
- 1.4 oz.-> aluminum pot gripper
- 0.5 oz.-> Lexan long spoon
- 0.5 oz.-> BIC lighter
- 0.5 oz.-> nylon stuff sack (protects pack contents from ESBIT gunk on pot bottom)
- OPTIONAL/SEASONAL: – 4.0 oz.-> aluminum “one egg” fry pan W/ ceramic non-stick interior.
- 0.3 oz. mini Lexan spatula
So, with fuel, that’s 18.5 oz. for the basic stove and cookware and 4.3 oz. for the fry pan and spatula.
Yes, the fry pan is relatively heavy – an ounce more than my pot – but it works very well and is worth the extra weight for omelettes, pancakes, fish, etc. It usually stays home in the summer.
I “Live to eat” and not the reverse so my cook set is geared for actual cooking.
As you can see I am not a proponent of cooking with a drinking mug. That means I can cook and drink at the same time. What a novel idea! My 3 cup pot has the necessary height-to-width ratio to be very fuel efficient.
Seems we all have our “cooking quirks”. Mine fit my menu style.Oct 22, 2016 at 5:02 pm #3432392
FIRE DANGER O.C.D. GEAR
As listed above I carry the Trail Designs ti base sheet that came with my Sidewinder’s optional Inferno insert. I take it all the time B/C our western states usually are tinder dry. I don’t want a smoldering fire in the forest floor duff the can travel may hundreds of yards before it pops up into a full open blaze.
With any ESBIT stove you should at least use a smaller aluminum base sheet under your fuel tab holder.
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