Shell Game: Wind and Rain Jacket Breathability Tests vs. Trail Performance

I have not seen a Crest in person. It appears to be a lighter version of the fabric. No pockets or other features, but very light weight. Dunno about sizing.

Agreed with Jerry and Terran about jacket lengths. I miss the days when parkas were cool.

Stephen might appreciate that.

Once upon a time, I seem to recall that Roger Caffin had some sort of pipeline set up to ship from his office to the US BPL offices. As I recall, the purpose was for testing fabrics. Don’t know whether anything like that would be possible again.

Jeff: Over-hyped, yes. Not a scam, not confirmation bias, and there is nothing to “fall for” — only nuance to understand better. Most of the detail in the video is pretty good, actually — it’s just those conclusions that are, themselves, over-hyped and misleading.

I don’t recall Skurka ever discussing membrane-on-the-outside.

I understand your point about fit. I kind of like the baggy fit of my Outdry jacket: it is not unlike Frogg Toggs in that the extra fabric promotes air movement. I wouldn’t want any shell to fit “right”, if “right” means trim and good-looking. That’s probably in the HYOH category.

And, yeah, pit zips! Or, really, more like the torso zips on OR Foray or Timmermade MegaZip. I’m in favor of adding ventilation when it is missing. Most of my rain gear has been altered in some way.

Agreed about DWR wetting out, regardless of re-applying it. I think that’s a red herring promoted by marketers. I ignore DWR performance — none of it works well enough for me to care about it. I just assume it is going to wet out in heavy rain. I don’t bother re-applying it.

Also agreed that membrane-on-the-outside is The Way for serious rain protection. Personally, I’m OK with sacrificing a few points of MVTR in return for that MVTR never being impeded by wet out.

As you say, don’t expect any membrane-with-face-fabric to be waterproof and breathable at the same time — that’s a misunderstanding about how they work, other than the few minutes when DWR is active. Yes, they are over-hyped.

Question: Does the DWR on your Gore-Tex jacket perform any better than your Precip? I’m curious about the Yamatomichi hypothesis.

Jerry: I’m with you about some of the electrospun membranes. They are nice in some conditions, and I agree that wet out’s effects can be managed when it does happen. It isn’t as dire as some people seem to think.

Adding ventilation: The hardest part, for me, is cutting up a perfectly good jacket. :)

I’m tempted to add a pack cover to the back of my Outdry jacket to make a mountain poncho that breathes in heavy rain. I made a Frogg Toggs prototype that almost works… still needs some tuning.

There’s YouTube hype and then there’s marketing hype.

Yes, and there is also just plain wrong. That’s the part I object to. Agreed about looking for the good parts. Pretty sure I acknowledged those above. Dunno why we’re still talking about it. :)

Mesh-backed pockets are great, yes.

For rain gear, I’d like to see forearm vents, or just over-sized sleeves, like a wizard. Like poncho sleeves, but longer — the idea being to keep rain off while allowing air movement underneath. Of course with a cinch to button up when it is cold.