There’s really no comparison between the Grade VII and the MH Absolute Zero. The MH parka is waterproof so it’s more in line with the Khumbu. The MH is a whoppin’ 45 oz as well. At some point, you have to draw the line, I reckon!

I agree with Ryan.  A majority of what Max does in the mountains is human-powered; either on skis or tied into a rope where every once counts and an expedition, 8000M parka is just not practical, nor really feasible.

I get that every belay jacket out there can’t always be tested, but I wonder why the Montane Deep Heat wasn’t taken into consideration?  Montane uses 300 grams of 800-Fill, hydrophobic goose down with box-wall construction and a Pertex Quantum Pro exterior.  At 27.23 ounces (772 grams,) it’s definitely right in the middle of the road in terms of test pieces.

For years, I’ve been advocating for gear manufacturers to construct a down belay jacket with a vapor barrier internal fabric to protect fragile down from perspiration, accumulated snow, etc.  I’m thrilled to see a professional like Max agrees!

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by matthew k.

Max,

In the specs you’re comparing different sizes for a few of them – ME and Rab spec a Large whereas most use a Medium. So unless they fit a size smaller that may not be a fair comparison.

Patagonia told me in an email a couple of weeks ago that the Grade VII had 299g of fill, others have been told 331g. They need to get it straight and put it on their website like almost every other serious manufacturer. Kinda shady.

The VBL inner shell would mean you can’t dry out your layers/gloves/socks, I guess everyone can decide how important that is to them if such a parka ever becomes available.

Anne, the Eigerjoch Pro is a nice-looking jacket. Looking at its specs, it only has 130 g of down fill in it – which for 850 fill equates to about 3,900 cubic inches of down (I think the Eigherjoch Pro also contains a couple of ounces of Primaloft). The jacket’s weight is around 2 lb.

I have to believe that based on the jackets presented in this review, almost everything in this State of the Market Report is going to have a higher level of warmth, and a higher warmth:weight ratio than the Eigherjoch Pro. For example, the Patagonia Fitz Roy weighs more than 1/2 lb less and has a 2,500 more cubic inches of down in it.

Nice review.  I have a Montane Deep Cold Parka for a few yrs which meet all of your criteria.  Love it and would buy it again.  Would have been nice to see how it faired vanthe others

Well researched review, [email protected] near exhaustive in terms of testing in the “wild”.

As for baffled shoulders, YES! I once returned The North Face’s first effort at a down parks B/C all the down fell away from the shoulders during a -5 F. backpacking trip. NOT good!

Personally I like the Feathered Friends Khumbu but for the money I like the unmentioned baffled “LL Bean Ultralight 850 Big Baffle” at $309. for a Large Tall. Bean uses Down Tech DWR. Bean’s customer service looked up the down fill and they say for a Large, Tall size it has about 13.8 oz. of 850 down fill. So not as much as the average parka reviewed here.

And yes, I am a “believer” in down DWR B/c at least for a few washings (say 3 years) it does work. Better than no DWR at all.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by matthew k.

Excellent Review and I also felt the Montane Deep Heat should have been included or mentioned in the review.

If you compare Patagonia Grade VII to that of the Feathered Friends Khumbu, BUT change weight values given in the  Performance Comparison Table to Warmth (50%) & Weight (20%) and left the other two variable unchanged…. both of these parkas would be equally scored @ 81.

Eric……Was interested in the LL Bean “Ultralight 850 Baffle Hooded down parka you just purchased and contacted L.L.Bean Chat concerning two question I had.  Connected with Ann who is in the PSS Soft Goods Department who sent me the answers to the two question below::

How many ounces of 800fp down are in the the LL Bean “Ultralight 850 Baffle Hooded down parkas?

>>>” down weights in ounces per size: S- 5.00 M- 5.30 L- 5.60 XL- 5.92 XXL- 6.24”

I the parka sewn through OR baffled construction?

>>”sewn through”

Do not think this is what you wanted in the parka you purchased. :(

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by matthew k.

Ken,

Ann at LL Bean is wrong. This is the baffled parka and its “official” name is the “Ultralight 850 Down Big Baffle Hooded Puffer Jacket” (Whew!) item number TA505278.

But thanks for checking on this. I’ll call Bean and see what the numbers are for this parka. It should arrive around Jan. 8 so I’ll post info and photos on it soon.

UPDATE: Called Bean’s and talked to a “product specialist”. He could not find either the ounces of down or garment weight. I told him that Bean’s needs to start publishing these numbers for consumer info. But another product specialist at Bean’s told me that for the Large Tall the arms are more than 1″ longer and the tall is 1 1/2″ longer than a Large Regular. Nice to know.

Also discovered that the hood is sewn-through. From the photos of it I can see I’ll be adding a detachable coyote or fox fur ruff. Soft loop “female” Velcro sewn the hood and the barbed “male” Velcro on the ruff. The ruff will flip forward to form a “breathing tunnel” in severe weather.

Finally, the LL Bean parka I ordered, like most of the parkas reviewed here, do Not have a baffle covering the outside of the main zipper. What gives?? I’m sure a thermal image of a person wearing such a “naked zipper” parka would show significant heat loss at the zipper. Enough of “Zipper as a Design Element”. It sucks but I’ll have to learn to “EMBRACE THE SUCK”.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by matthew k.

OK, the LL Bean 850 fill baffled parka just arrived.

Forget what I said before. Upon a closer look this parka is NOT baffled at all. – sewn-thru entirely.

In a conversation with a Bean’s customer service person he had no clue as to what a baffle WAS! Fortunately their “Product Specialist” did and he agreed that the ad copy using the term “baffle” was probably meant to have said “channels”. i.e. should have been “Big Channels”, NOT “Big Baffles”.

I’m sending it back now.  Aaaarrggghh!

—————————————————————————————————————————————-

P.S. After searching the internet again I think I like the Eddie Bauer “First Ascent Peak XV Down Jacket”. This parka IS baffled from two reviews, one video and one print. It’s also heavy and has WPB shell but I’ll put up with that for $299. from Bauer or Amazon . I’m on a fixed retirement budget and price is very important.  That heavier weight 3 oz. 40 Denier, WPB shell also means I can leave a heavy GTX mountain parka shell at home. Kinda reminds me of the FF Khumbu in design. The extra weight does not bother me B/C I’m not climbing and won’t backcountry ski above 11,000 ft. I’ll just diet a bit. ;o)

The Peak XV is decently long but no tall sizes are offered. But it does have a nice down face “ruff” lined with light fleece. I’m still putting on that detachable coyote fur ruff. (“fashion first”)

P.P.S. So today I ordered the Eddie Bauer Peak XV parka. We’ll see…

Eddie Bauer PEAK XV parka-> The EB parka arrived today and it is very nicely designed and appears to be high quality construction.

PROS:

1. Fully baffled – torso, arms and hood. Baffles appear to be 1/2″ wide.
2. good assortment of interior (3) and exterior (3) pockets
3. Parka hood is helmet compatable
4. Hem drawstrings accessible from hand warmer pockets (must be relaxed from outside)
5. Hood face drawstrings accessible from inside, back hood ‘string is for horizontal adjustment
6. Light Cordura brand shell for durability

CONS:

1. Not enough fill in upper arms (easily remedied)
2. no insulation on internal zipper baffle (can easily be filled W/ down)
3. one-way front zipper

So overall, for $299. and free shipping, it is a very good buy for an extreme weather parka.  FINALLY a good down parka that is as advertised, maybe better.,

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by matthew k.

Are the fill powers listed for RAB correct? Not euro method?

So the Patagonia Grade VII has 3.7 oz more fill than the Fitz Roy, more pockets, more baffles, it’s longer, it’s wider.  And it only weighs 2.5 oz more!  How do they do that?

They do save a bit of weight with the interior fabric (0.15 oz/m2).  But they add even more with the exterior fabric (0.2 oz/m2).  With pockets, there might be a bit more interior fabric, but just a bit.

Then I saw Jean D’s post above.  Does the Grade VII have 299g of fill, or 331g (which equals the 11.6 mentioned in the article)?  If 299, then it has 2.5 oz more than the Fitz Roy … .