Zpacks, the end of my love affair

I’m now much more concerned and focused on extending the life of my stripped down Zero and generation 1.0 Arc Blast packs, now that they are historical artifacts.

Well said.

Just had Chris make me a beautiful frameless pack.  All decked out including sit light pad is only 16oz. Thing carries better than my 2014 GG Gorilla.

There will always be a place for the new ZPacks but it is a bit sad they are no longer what they were.

K2

Sorry to hear that but I just want to read about your next love affair when it happens ;)

Just when I thought I was almost done buying expensive backpacking gear you had to go an introduce me to Zimmer…

This is entirely normal.

Very small, one-person operations are shooting stars in the night that dazzle us for a while and are then gone because they are wholly dependent upon that single person and do not have succession plans. And even if they do, the second owner likely will not have the same passion and drive of the guy or gal who pursued the original vision.

You might not like the direction it has gone but at least Zpacks is much more likely to outlast Joe V. Think about the recent and unfortunate incident with Luke at LUL…

And there will always be, as now, plenty of cottage folks to take up the slack, and in this age of the internet it isn’t that hard to find them. I remember quite a few years ago learning about McHale in a classified-type ad in the back of BackPacker magazine and how hard it was to find out the thoughts of other people who had used them… just had to call Dan himself on the phone and work it out (pretty much like it is now, lol).

Good for Joe!

Instead of eking out a living as a one man operation in a garage he has grown his business. He may even make as much money as many of his affluent customers and now can provide for his family and his future. Given his reputation for excellent customer service, which I have experienced personally, he continues to provide a high level of service while now dealing with a large inventory of raw material, finished product, and a robust daily shipping operation. Let us not forget all the jobs he has created here in the US. Joe embodies the American Dream.

Another success story is Tim Marshall. Kudos to both!!

Am I disappointed at the elimination of custom options from ZPacks?  Yes indeed!

I have benefited from the opportunity to customize my purchases from them.  But if I am totally honest, most of those customizations were requested because I could rather than because without them them, the product would fail to meet my needs.  The fact is that the stock Arc Haul and Duplex designs are still some of the best available and I would (re)buy them without a second thought.

As others have said, these changes to the way Zpacks does business are perfectly normal, and good for the company’s health.  Nobody liked the 8-12 week delivery delays that doing custom work created.  Continuing to accept custom work would undoubtedly compromise the ability to deliver “standard” products in a timely manner, costing the company dearly.

I also can understand that the Nero does not “replace” the Zero, and that anyone desiring a Zero is going to be disappointed.  But I have a hard time imagining that the market for the old Zero is larger than that for the new Nero and thus, this “upgrade” is simply good business.  We should all be happy for that, as it greatly increasing the chance that ZPacks will still be around, making great gear (albeit at the expense of a very small contingent of purchasers) for some time to come.

The evolution of Zpacks and Enlightened Equipment (see this morning’s EE email newsletter) seem very similar to me, they both are moving toward stocking “standard” products that meet (or exceed) the needs of a large audience, and delivered quickly.  This is indicative of well run businesses, ones that are starting to enjoy the stability and levels of investment that allow efficiencies of scale.

So rather than lament the change, I applaud both Joe and Tim for making the hard business decisions to streamline production, eliminate (or at least mitigate) what must have been huge production (and product return) headaches, and that will hopefully allow time for innovation and the release of new products.

Maybe if he keeps growing he can go back to custom stuff in the future. Hire a dedicated person for it once everything else is sorted out and streamlined.

Ex: say 85% of people were getting the old Zero outfitted with 95% of the things on the new Nero. Now they can have somebody bust out a bunch of Neros without having to look up orders and specifics and can build up inventory. That will free up time for somebody and once enough time is freed up they could do custom work again, granted at what would probably be a pretty high cost.

<cite class=”_Rm”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pitwR8jPd_M</cite&gt;

Great for Zpacks! To be judged as a success it doesn’t always have to evolve in the direction of the ‘American Dream’ as Nick puts it, where large quantities of similar products available fast is the goal.

McHale is maybe one example (although I am only guessing here, as I have never laid hands on any of his packs), and possibly also Chris Zimmer. In the bike world, there’s similar iconic personages likes Richard Sachs and Pegoretti. These are people with incredible gifts, likely possessed too by mr. Valesko, but with a different temperament leading them to choose the slow, lonely path of super custom work with outmost attention to detail.

I view both paths as successes, and while one (the Zpacks route), is typical and the focus of many hopeful upstarts, I reserve a special appreciation for the McHales of this world.

+1 w/Kat. Well told. Going to read it again.

Edward,

I too feel your pain.  I discovered Joe and ZPacks in 2007, 10 years ago, when the website had just barely been launched.  This was my very first backpacking trip, but I already saw the “light.”  I remember having Joe make me a custom no-see-um toothbrush pouch which he sewed by hand (this was back when ZPacks was a business he ran out of his apartment) which I still use to this day.  I then remember asking him to make me custom stuff sacks here and there for various cookpots. Then ZPacks started making shelters and backpacks.  I remember thinking: What’s up with all this “cuben” stuff?  I initially though that his Blast backpack was ugly as sin.  I then read about Joe’s experiences on the PCT and the fact that he made all his own gear out of cuben and got more interested.  Eventually, I was won over by cuben and now want everything cuben.

I’m a bit disappointed that Joe’s offer to customize things has waned over the years.  My own view is that he should continue to do so but simply increase the cost of customization to maintain a healthy profit margin.  It makes sense that Joe doesn’t have time himself to hand sew a pouch here and there when I need one, but it also makes sense that he has a custom shop going.

Also, I think that Zpacks needs to retain its roots, which is producing cutting-edge gear that is lighter than its competitors.  Nearly all my gear comes from ZPacks, if only because they make the lightest stuff.  Now that the Arc Blast is 21 oz, it no longer reigns supreme over its rivals.  People will begin to look to smaller outfits such as KS Ultralight, Appalachian Ultralight, etc.  I’ve just discovered these names myself in the last few months, only because I’ve wanted to explore what else is out there.

The truth is that this UL market has become a major industry the last 5-10 years.  If ZPacks wants to continue to compete in that market, it must continue to count grams and consider revisiting custom work.  That said, I’ll always have respect for Joe and ZPacks and wish them all the best as time goes on…

+1 nunatak g

the problem with custom gear is that it might take more time and effort than just to make it … i know when i ordered my trekkertent with some custom mods there was quite a bit of back and forth over the mods …

i suspect that many a folks who ordered custom items took up quite a bit of support time as well …

while its nice to have a custom mod and feel special … i really have to say that unless you are truly pushing the limits, it makes no real world difference in what you can do

most of the best athletes in the world use standard manufacturer gear to do more than most of us ever will … though some of the very top athletes might get their own “custom line”

theres plenty of “UL” companies that go for the cookie cutter approach and do just fine, as do their customers

sometimes if you give folks too many choices, well theyll just dither around and obsess about things that matter little while making things complicated (i probably did)

price, speed (once you get popular), custom … pick 2 of 3

;)

ZPacks is making high quality UL gear available to a wider customer base than before by offering standardized items with no customization options.  This will be good for all makers of UL gear, big and small, as more hikers discover the joy of UL and begin investigating other products/manufacturers.

I emailed Joe yesterday right before the Nero was officially released, asking if he would make me an old style zero. He emailed me back a couple hours later, and informed me of the new Nero, which is actually a tad smaller than the old zero was in size small (just what I was looking for).  I asked him another question and he got back to me very early this am.

While their products may have changed, the customer service is still top notch.

I ordered a new Nero. :)

Last year I made and sold maybe 15 cuben zip sacks on here. It is fun to do and I enjoy making gear, but I can tell you that doing these in custom sizes for a lot of the people added significant time to making them and accounting for materials and shipping, I was lucky to make $5/hour. Their people are likely much faster than I am but I can see the challenges for remaining profitable yet cost-competitive when doing custom gear. Lucky for me, my $100 thread injector on my kitchen table doesn’t carry much overhead as opposed to paying rent and utilities on a building. :)

$5/hour.  WHEW!  Great that you had fun Hoosier :)

Never fear…if there is money to be made in custom UL gear someone will step in and provide the service.  There are currently many up and coming entrepreneurs doing exactly that.  Who know which of them may be the next ZPacks? :)

@nedjursek There’s a Twin in the bargain bin at the moment…

I never really bought into cuben packs. Older silnylon was durable enough for a 40-50L pack and it held up well…I still have and use the older Miniposa (10 years old, 15oz) and my daughter still has her old Sil G5(9 years old, 7oz). I have since purchased a couple Murmurs that work fine for me. Anyway, I did pick up a ZPacks Solo Plus that was quite light, but not as light as my old sil green tarp (17oz after the last re-coat, including guys and stakes.) But, I am truly sorry to see the commercial push by several former cottage manufacturers. MLD, Gossamer Gear, and now ZPacks. I wish them all well. But I will continue to make my own gear or purchase items that have the same feel to them. 1) Mostly, they are lighter because I am not afraid of a few repairs. 2) Usually, it is cheaper to make gear, even paying retail prices for fabric. 3) Generally speaking, the quality is better, I know where it needs reinforcement, and, what to skip. Good Luck ZPacks.

Only on BPL will people complain about a 10 ounce pack.

^^^

If I read it correctly, the complaining was about $199 for a one-size-fits-all 10oz pack.

To be fair, Zpacks isn’t the only company with a pack in that price range. For hecks sake, the Palante pack is $240! For a sack with straps!