Wind River High Route: Consequences

I dunno, “sad” to me is unsustainable numbers like multiple hundreds of people per day on the JMT.   ~10 people a day discovering an awesome off-trail mountain route and disturbing a crazy mountain hobo who wants it all to himself?   Not so much.   Traffic on something like the High Route is probably self-limiting by the difficulty of the route.

ETA:  Nick, could you repost the link?   I’d like to read the whole think, but the link doesn’t seem to go anywhere.

Ralph,

I can no longer post a url on this pitiful website. I will try later.

If you go to carrotquinn dot com, it is the first post as of today. Here is the URL vis a picture.

I cannot not post a URL via a hypertext link or simply the text, even if I type it or paste it.

Glad I will be doing this route next month before it gets REALLY crowded.

What can I say – I was having a bad day :-D

That’s a terrific, well written trip report.  Thanks for sharing, even if the link didn’t work out.

carrotquinn dot com

The only way he’s hiked in the Winds for 40 years without seeing a single person would be by being sightless. There’s packing operations devoted to hauling people’s gear in. No doubt the publicity of the WRHR has certainly increased traffic on that route. And I’m sure the people who hike it will be back again to see other parts. But …

Come to think of it, it is super crowded and should be avoided at all costs! Thank you.

I just got back from the Wind River Range a couple of weeks ago. Headed in out of Big Sandy to Marms, Shadow, Skull and Wakashie for a short 5 day trip. We met 5 people doing the high route and heard of 4 others who didn’t finish. Ran into a guide who said he has never seen so many people out and about. However, even with all the people, the scenery is still spectacular.

I’m always amused by those who are dismayed by other people being in THEIR piece of paradise. Of course these same entitled folks are other people to everybody else.

Happily people looking at mountains and trees doesn’t spoil their beauty one iota.

I wonder if their isn’t a certain fantasy element involved in insisting on solitude for the wilderness experience to be ‘pristine’. I most often hike by myself, and much prefer that; so I get a lot of hours of solitude on my hikes. Most people who complain about seeing other people on their hikes are traveling in pairs or groups. I don’t understand how that translates to solitude.

Of course, beyond a certain point crowds on the trails are annoying; I get that.

I understand the concern.  Hiked for 6 days off trail in the WRR last month.  Saw 2 people too far away to say hi in all 6 days.  Then spent 6 days on the John Muir Trail for the first time.   Learned what hiking at Coney Island was like.

I avoid the John Muir Trail. All of those people on the JMT leave the dozens of other available trails nearby relatively empty.

Oh in the spring the pct through hikers account for a lot of traffic too.

I’ve spent days without seeing people while hiking on trails in Yosemite and environs. Partly it’s a matter of choosing the season (spring happens early to some trails that are filled with hikers later in the season.) Partly it’s a matter of choosing the right trails in high season. More than once I’ve hiked from just below Merced Lake in high season ( a high sierra camp–but I camped alone with better views just a mile and half past Merced Lake) up to just outside Sunrise (another high Sierra camp) without seeing anyone the entire hiking day. And camped next to water by myself that night. Ansel Adams Wilderness has even more possibilities.  Oh, and I once hiked for two and a half days without seeing anyone on the High route out to Triple Divide in Yosemite. The examples go on and on. Clover Meadows just outside of the Park is a great trail head leading into fantastic and rarely visited scenery in the park. So, choose wisely and some beautiful country can be yours even in high population parks.

Last year I saw 3 people. 2 near my first night’s camp which was only about 5.5 miles from the TH. One guy after that. We kind of startled each other. He hadn’t seen anyone since leaving Titcomb Basin. I hope I can avoid these kinds of crowds in the future! I’ll report back after my trip next week.

I’ll eventually do the WRHR when my dog retires. (I’m sure he could do it but I’ve heard it’s best not to bring a dog.) When I do, I’ll just adjust my mindset for that trip. Just like when doing the 4 Pass Loop. Of course it’s crowded, but worth it. I have plenty of other trips where I can avoid the crowds.

Unfortunately, I got sick and had to come out after 1 night. Spent the next week in bed. Worst. Trip. Ever. But here’s the parking area at the St. Lawrence TH. I was lucky to find a place to park! This is on a Sunday. The Soobie was gone when I came back on Monday. 

I did the Wind River Obscure Route last week. Also known as a backpacking trip. :D

Saw zero people. Of course, as with Randy, we were in the Wind River Indian Reservation. Not many people go there.

I don’t recall ever seeing anyone while on the reservation but traffic elsewhere in the range is on the rise.  Big Sandy this past Labor Day weekend was crazy with cars, at least 2 to 3 times the typical number, but once you put a days worth of hiking in and a big pass behind you, the crowds thinned out.  Going over Temple Pass in the rain and snow we encountered some thirty or so people in the space of an hour heading out to Big Sandy.  The break in the weather mostly likely had everyone a little bunched up, but the bulk of the hikers seemed to be an international group on a guided tour of some sort.

Admit it, Nick.  The curmudgeon in the trip report was you.  ;)

My concern isn’t about a desire for my own solitude.

A while back Tom Kirchner was bemoaning the amount of trash and other human impact in remote off-trail locations in his beloved portions of the Sierra that were once pristine wilderness — areas he has been visiting for decades. This is my concern.

It is time to revisit the concept of Wilderness Ethics. As someone who has spent decades walking areas once “untrammeled by man” I see the impact and consequences of too many people marching into our wilderness — most driven there by trail guides. Without trail guides many of these areas would have remained wilderness untrammeled by man.

I was working on a blog post when I started this thread, just to see what the response would be. As I unfortunately expected, no one is speaking for Wilderness — just their own desire to travel a pristine area without thought to the negative impact of trail guides: the entitlement mindset that trail guides are a good thing without considering the consequences to the wilderness itself.

Here is my blog post: Wilderness For Sale 

My hope is that I can inspire a handful of people to think about wilderness and our proper place in it, who in turn can encourage others to approach wilderness in an ethical manner. Perhaps we can create a renewed focus on Wilderness Ethics.

Am I advocating that people do not write about their adventures? No, I am not. I see that pmags posted a comment here about his own Wind River Obscure Route that he recently posted on his blog. You can go to his blog and read about it — (I would post the link, but this crappy forum software will not allow us to post more than one URL link, and I already posted one earlier). It is a trip report that only includes a general description of the location and lots of pictures. This is the correct approach. I have never met Paul, but as a reader of his blog I know he often writes about and advocates for the concept of Wilderness Ethics. He is one of the few backpackers on the Internet today that publicly advocates for Wilderness Ethics. His trip report is the responsible way to conduct one’s self on the Internet.

Perhaps BPL, both the readership and the ownership, should start writing more about Wilderness Ethics instead of gear and detailed information on where to walk.

Who speaks for Wilderness? It certainly isn’t backpackinglight.com, periodicals like Backpacker Magazine, publishers of trail guides, or people who post detailed maps of routes with GPS waypoints in pristine wilderness.

Here is Paul’s Wind River Obscure Route

rJust wanted to give a shout out to this wonderful response to grouchiness:

“That man has been waiting forty years,” I say, “for somebody to scoff at.”

You are completely right.  And may your trails always give you that perspective.

Nick,

Your posts often come off as condescending and that it is only YOU who speaks for wilderness. This is the only backpacking forum I post on. I don’t feel like I need to educate people on this site about wilderness ethics or LNT.  This isn’t a place people generally come for backpacking 101. When people ask for advice on a place I’m familiar with, I pass on what I can. Very few people are posting detailed routes on this site.

“I was working on a blog post when I started this thread, just to see what the response would be. As I unfortunately expected, no one is speaking for Wilderness — just their own desire to travel a pristine area without thought to the negative impact of trail guides: the entitlement mindset that trail guides are a good thing without considering the consequences to the wilderness itself.”

You got that from the responses on this thread??? How? Because you didn’t get a bunch of +1’s? Go back to Alan Dixon’s first post on the WRHR. IIRC, there was plenty of people saying it was a bad idea.

It just seems strange that you are bemoaning the state of the Winds when you haven’t set eyes on it in 40 years. You personally have no facts about what it’s like there. Just some second hand info that you’re using to pass judgement on others. Some people just need something to complain about I guess. I think’s it’s amazing and find plenty of solitude there. If I do hike the WRHR at some point, I’ll do so fully aware that it’s not going to be a hike of solitude. Just like the 4 Pass Loop here in Colorado.  Or the JMT, which I may one day do, in CA. I know where to go to find solitude.

BTW, I love Nancy Palister’s book and find it very useful with a lot of information that can not been gleamed from a map. And so far, I’ve never seen another person off trail so it doesn’t seem like book has had a significant impact to the solitude of those areas.

Is the old guy in Carrot’s report elitist? Maybe. I don’t really care anyway. But he’s undeniably full of s*&% to claim he’s been hiking in the Winds for 40 years and never seen another person. Some people just need to complain about something/anything.

You’ve posted before that we should eliminate all trails, trail heads, roads to trails, etc. That should certainly thin out the crowds. Maybe get backpackers down to a thousand or so. Will that be good enough for you? (We’ll sure be able to fend off the mountain bikes in wilderness attack then!)

I do appreciate your perspective, Nick, but generally disagree with it.  Alan Dixon’s publication has allowed me to find a couple of fun routes.  I have done parts and re-routed other parts.  Most great backpacking places are going to be found eventually.  But really, what’s next?  Should we put down caltopo for making good maps available because it allows more people to get into the wilderness?  Should we call the Winds “the mountains who shan’t be named”?  All information gets more people into the wilderness.  And, as Americans, we all have the right to explore them.  I can agree on some balances to keep wilderness areas from getting overused, but it’s really hard for me to criticize something that is little more than a map.

I went through the Winds starting Sept. 2.  A lot of it was on the WRHR.  I saw very few people.  We saw no people at all for 4 days of it.

I do think it’s worth discussing and thinking about it.  I just keep coming down on the side of the map makers.

Paul learned his lesson the hard way. Victim of his own success.

Paul learned his lesson the hard way. Victim of his own success.

Yep. :)

Ate a lot crow for it too!

Trying to take a middle approach now-a-days.

But that is what works for me. Does not mean it is the right way for everyone.